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Is Eating Pork Wrong?
- Thread starter gekko
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Bro. James said:
In Romans 3 Paul asks the question "Are we abolishing the Laws of God with our Christian Faith?? God Forbid!!! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God!"
A pretty far cry from "take everything you read in scripture and nail it to the cross".
Remember that the "scripture" of the NT saints - was the OT!
That is why Paul quotes in in Rom 7 AND in Eph 6:1-3.
That is why James quotes it in James 2.
That is why the OT scriptures are continually quoted all throughout the NT.
But the issue here is whether our Creator actually knew what He was talking about when he stated that rats, cats, dogs and bats are "not food" and "not edible" for humans whereas beef, lamb, chicken, salmon etc ARE food for humans. Read Lev 11 to see the list.
Some argue that the cross of Christ makes rats good food for humans now and that we should not pay any attention to what our Creator said to the contrary in Lev 11.
Others argue that if you turn Acts 10 a certain way you can get it to say "eat rats to show that you are willing to evangelize gentiles" and so make the case "those who stick to beef steak instead of eating rats are not truly free from the rule about eating beef instead of rats" - and they argue that these beef-chicken-lamb eating types will not be inclined to evangelize gentiles - since that comes with eating rats.
All that is pretty interesting stuff - but I prefer the Word of God instead.
in Christ,
Bob
And then there is: The Perfect Law of Liberty.
To be consistent with rightly dividing The Word of Truth, one must acknowledge that the Laws of Moses, including the dietary laws were given to Israel. The Gentiles were not included. As far as going from OT to NT, there is nothing inconsistent about stating that all such systems of law were nailed to the tree--having been fulfilled by the shedding of innocent blood of the Lamb of God.
To be sure, the first assembly was all Jewish. They were having trouble with the same kinds of issues: circumcision being necessary for membership, as an example, created all sorts of turmoil. Peter had a problem with "unclean". The Lord set him straight. If NT Christians are under OT laws which are still in effect, then we need to worship on Saturday and stone people to death for breaking any law. In reality, these laws were given to show that we cannot keep God's laws--we are depraved by nature.
This is part of man's trying to please God with his good works, in fact even earn salvation through keeping some code. God calls all of this "filthy rags"--cloths filled with contagion(sic).
Choose wisely,
Bro. James
To be consistent with rightly dividing The Word of Truth, one must acknowledge that the Laws of Moses, including the dietary laws were given to Israel. The Gentiles were not included. As far as going from OT to NT, there is nothing inconsistent about stating that all such systems of law were nailed to the tree--having been fulfilled by the shedding of innocent blood of the Lamb of God.
To be sure, the first assembly was all Jewish. They were having trouble with the same kinds of issues: circumcision being necessary for membership, as an example, created all sorts of turmoil. Peter had a problem with "unclean". The Lord set him straight. If NT Christians are under OT laws which are still in effect, then we need to worship on Saturday and stone people to death for breaking any law. In reality, these laws were given to show that we cannot keep God's laws--we are depraved by nature.
This is part of man's trying to please God with his good works, in fact even earn salvation through keeping some code. God calls all of this "filthy rags"--cloths filled with contagion(sic).
Choose wisely,
Bro. James
Pork is now referred to as , " The Other White Meat".
In the old days hogs ate slop. They were scavengers and what ever they ate we ate if we ate port. Today they are grain fed. When we eat pork we are eating what the pigs eat but we are eating something similar when we eat beef or catfish.
In the old days hogs ate slop. They were scavengers and what ever they ate we ate if we ate port. Today they are grain fed. When we eat pork we are eating what the pigs eat but we are eating something similar when we eat beef or catfish.
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]A pig is a real garbage gut. It will eat anything including urine, excrement, dirt, decaying animal flesh, maggots, or decaying vegetables. They will even eat the cancerous growths off other pigs or animals. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The meat and fat of a pig absorbs toxins like a sponge. Their meat can be 30 times more toxic than beef or venison. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]When eating beef or venison, it takes 8 to 9 hours to digest the meat so what little toxins are in the meat are slowly put into our system and can be filtered by the liver. But when pork is eaten, it takes only 4 hours to digest the meat. We thus get a much higher level of toxins within a shorter time. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Unlike other mammals, a pig does not sweat or perspire. Perspiration is a means by which toxins are removed from the body. Since a pig does not sweat, the toxins remain within its body and in the meat. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Pigs and swine are so poisonous that you can hardly kill them with strychnine or other poisons. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Farmers will often pen up pigs within a rattlesnake nest because the pigs will eat the snakes, and if bitten they will not be harmed by the venom. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]When a pig is butchered, worms and insects take to its flesh sooner and faster than to other animal's flesh. In a few days the swine flesh is full of worms. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Swine and pigs have over a dozen parasites within them, such as tapeworms, flukes, worms, and trichinae. There is no safe temperature at which pork can be cooked to ensure that all these parasites, their cysts,and eggs will be killed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Pig meat has twice as much fat as beef. A 3 oz T bone steak contains 8.5 grams of fat; a 3 oz pork chop contains 18 grams of fat. A 3 oz beef rib has 11.1 grams of fat; a 3 oz pork spare rib has 23.2 grams of fat. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Cows have a complex digestive system, having four stomachs. It thus takes over 24 hours to digest their vegetarian diet causing its food to be purified of toxins. In contrast, the swine's one stomach takes only about 4 hours to digest its foul diet, turning its toxic food into flesh. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The swine carries about 30 diseases which can be easily passed to humans. This is why God commanded that we are not even to touch their carcase (Leviticus 11:8). [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The trichinae worm of the swine is microscopically small, and once ingested can lodge itself in our intestines, muscles, spinal cord or the brain. This results in the disease trichinosis. The symptoms are sometimes lacking, but when present they are mistaken for other diseases, such as typhoid, arthritis, rheumatism, gastritis, MS, meningitis, gall bladder trouble, or acute alcoholism. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The pig is so poisonous and filthy, that nature had to prepare him a sewer line or canal running down each leg with an outlet in the bottom of the foot. Out of this hole oozes pus and filth his body cannot pass into its system fast enough. Some of this pus gets into the meat of the pig. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The meat and fat of a pig absorbs toxins like a sponge. Their meat can be 30 times more toxic than beef or venison. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]When eating beef or venison, it takes 8 to 9 hours to digest the meat so what little toxins are in the meat are slowly put into our system and can be filtered by the liver. But when pork is eaten, it takes only 4 hours to digest the meat. We thus get a much higher level of toxins within a shorter time. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Unlike other mammals, a pig does not sweat or perspire. Perspiration is a means by which toxins are removed from the body. Since a pig does not sweat, the toxins remain within its body and in the meat. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Pigs and swine are so poisonous that you can hardly kill them with strychnine or other poisons. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Farmers will often pen up pigs within a rattlesnake nest because the pigs will eat the snakes, and if bitten they will not be harmed by the venom. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]When a pig is butchered, worms and insects take to its flesh sooner and faster than to other animal's flesh. In a few days the swine flesh is full of worms. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Swine and pigs have over a dozen parasites within them, such as tapeworms, flukes, worms, and trichinae. There is no safe temperature at which pork can be cooked to ensure that all these parasites, their cysts,and eggs will be killed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Pig meat has twice as much fat as beef. A 3 oz T bone steak contains 8.5 grams of fat; a 3 oz pork chop contains 18 grams of fat. A 3 oz beef rib has 11.1 grams of fat; a 3 oz pork spare rib has 23.2 grams of fat. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Cows have a complex digestive system, having four stomachs. It thus takes over 24 hours to digest their vegetarian diet causing its food to be purified of toxins. In contrast, the swine's one stomach takes only about 4 hours to digest its foul diet, turning its toxic food into flesh. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The swine carries about 30 diseases which can be easily passed to humans. This is why God commanded that we are not even to touch their carcase (Leviticus 11:8). [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The trichinae worm of the swine is microscopically small, and once ingested can lodge itself in our intestines, muscles, spinal cord or the brain. This results in the disease trichinosis. The symptoms are sometimes lacking, but when present they are mistaken for other diseases, such as typhoid, arthritis, rheumatism, gastritis, MS, meningitis, gall bladder trouble, or acute alcoholism. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The pig is so poisonous and filthy, that nature had to prepare him a sewer line or canal running down each leg with an outlet in the bottom of the foot. Out of this hole oozes pus and filth his body cannot pass into its system fast enough. Some of this pus gets into the meat of the pig. [/FONT]
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
As much as someone may or may not like the pig -- Lev 11 covers the Rats, cats, dogs and bats under the same rule and Acts 10 makes no effort at all to single out "the pig", so I am going with the standard "rats, cats dogs and bats" to carry the main idea obvious to all.
The question I have is for those who argue in favor of eating rats under the rule of Acts 10 that they say equates eating rats with having the right view of the gospel-to-gentiles and as they say "no symbolism this is really really eating rats".
It "APPEARS TO ME" that Peter gives the meaning of Acts 10 THREE times as a SYMBOL that we should literally call no MAN UNHOLY or UNCLEAN.
But there are those on this board who recently say "OH no - this is no symbol we are TO EAT RATS to show our acceptance of gentiles in the Gospel".
I gotta wonder how many on this thread are eating rats, cats, dogs and bats SO THAT they can offer the gospel to gentiles.
Anyone?
Anyone at all???
In Christ,
Bob
The question I have is for those who argue in favor of eating rats under the rule of Acts 10 that they say equates eating rats with having the right view of the gospel-to-gentiles and as they say "no symbolism this is really really eating rats".
It "APPEARS TO ME" that Peter gives the meaning of Acts 10 THREE times as a SYMBOL that we should literally call no MAN UNHOLY or UNCLEAN.
But there are those on this board who recently say "OH no - this is no symbol we are TO EAT RATS to show our acceptance of gentiles in the Gospel".
I gotta wonder how many on this thread are eating rats, cats, dogs and bats SO THAT they can offer the gospel to gentiles.
Anyone?
Anyone at all???
In Christ,
Bob
Last edited by a moderator:
In that vision to Peter, God had instructed Cornelius, a Gentile, to send men to visit Peter. But Peter would have refused to see them if God had not given him the vision, because Jewish law forbade entertaining Gentiles (verse 28). But when the men finally did arrive, Peter welcomed them, explaining that ordinarily he would not have done so but "God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." verse 28. In the next chapter (Acts 11), the church members criticized Peter for speaking with these Gentiles. So Peter told them the whole story of his vision and its meaning. And Act 11:18 says, "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."
I dont see how the meaning of the vision isnt clear to everyone.
I dont see how the meaning of the vision isnt clear to everyone.
Then "not everything is profitable" is the principle that we would govern ourselves on, and is why I continued not to eat pork for the above reasons even after learning that that particular law did not continue as a command, just like the one about mixing fabrics. The verse you alluded to said "all things are LAWFUL, but not all things are expedient". Lev. 11 was not a health law, and if that, and your arguments and quotes above about all meats were the case, and no meat really healthy for us at all, then all meat would have never been allowed, or at least have been specifically forbidden in the NT. This shows that none of them were health laws, but rather reflected the spiritual connotations of the animal's behavior. (Peaceful grazers vs. predators, scavengers, pests, etc)Claudia_T said:
This was what Gentiles were associated with, but the Gospel showed us that all mean are the latter, but through Christ, we can be cleansed as the former. So no, God was not telling Peter than the animals were "cleaned". "Clean" and "unclean/defiled" were SPIRITUAL concepts, and animals were never given the Law and sinned in the first place, so they were never unclean IN THEMSELVES (as Pal says) to begin with. It was man who was unclean, and needed to be cleaned,and the animals were used to remind carnal Israel of the "difference between the holy and profane", which ultimately has to do with human sin, not animals, as we see the concept later reiterated in that context by Peter in his epistle.
Last edited by a moderator:
:applause: :thumbsup:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
rats? Kittens? Puppies? dogs? bats? -- the Bible says "these are not food" for humans in Lev 11.
In Isaiah 66 God says that AT THE END of time there is a fire and brimstone judgment awaiting those who "eat mice and destible things".
I for one - trust God's Word on this point. Some others here - do not. RAther they trust that parts of God's Word are "abolished" EVEN though Paul says "Do we then abolish the Law of God by our Faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God!" Rom 3:31. In Heb 8 we find the Law of God WRITTEN on the heart under the New Covenant INSTEAD of abolished.
In Christ,
Bob
In Isaiah 66 God says that AT THE END of time there is a fire and brimstone judgment awaiting those who "eat mice and destible things".
I for one - trust God's Word on this point. Some others here - do not. RAther they trust that parts of God's Word are "abolished" EVEN though Paul says "Do we then abolish the Law of God by our Faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God!" Rom 3:31. In Heb 8 we find the Law of God WRITTEN on the heart under the New Covenant INSTEAD of abolished.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
EdSutton said:The poor little piggie has lived for four months wondering if he is going to be somebody's Christmas Dinner. If he can see this debate go on for just another week or so, he might even get to live another year, maybe??
Ed
the poor little kitten...,
the poor little puppy...
the poor little mouse...
the poor little rat...
the poor little bat...
They are all trembling by your logic above - as they look to see if the humans will trust what the Creator says in Lev 11 "is food" for humans and what "is not".
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan said:
Actually, around here, the only ones that tremble much about this with any reason are the little piggy, the shrimp of the sea, and the catfish. Many that might have reason to tremble some places do not, like the deer, the locust and the grasshopper. And the sheep and goats have little to worry about either, although the chicken and steer should worry. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Ed
Actually, around here, the only ones that tremble much about this with any reason are the little piggy, the shrimp of the sea, and the catfish. Many that might have reason to tremble some places do not, like the deer, the locust and the grasshopper. And the sheep and goats have little to worry about either, although the chicken and steer should worry.BobRyan said:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I again submit that this distinction is removed in the encounter with Peter, and all the attempts to interpret by ethnicity does not change what the Scripture says here, "Arise, Peter! Kill and eat".
Ed
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