Is effeminacy a problem?

[Luke2427]

In light of the current homosexual marriage controversy in which our nation is now thoroughly embroiled due to the President's recent remarks, what do you think about the secondary issue of effeminacy of men in our culture.

If a man walks, talks, moves, and in general behaves in ways that are largely recognized as feminine- but the man is heterosexual- is this perfectly okay with you...

or...

Do you think men ought to walk, talk, move and behave in a way that is very distinct from the way in which women and girls do these things?

Do you think the effemenization and emasculation of men and the masculinization of women in this culture is a factor related to the rise of acceptance of homosexuality in this culture?

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Do you think men ought to walk, talk, move and behave in a way that is very distinct from the way in which women and girls do these things?

Yes, I think this, and the acceptance of homosexuality are two sides in many ways of the same coin. As a society, we are utterly erasing the distinctions between male and female and embracing a gender neutral mentallity that I think to be mistaken. Some people (men and women) have certain mannerisms they might have learned by osmosis and are unintentional, but I think we need to lovingly teach otherwise. My parents, for instance, required myself and my brothers to engage in certain "masculine" activities, whether we desired to or not. I am glad they did.

Do you think the effemenization and emasculation of men and the masculinization of women in this culture is a factor related to the rise of acceptance of homosexuality in this culture?

Yes, not the sole factor of course...I think it relates to our Acceptance of it, but not much the Cause of it.

 

[Winman]

Some fellows are just kind of "prissy", but are not gay. I work with a fellow like this, he was born in a wealthy family, and dresses very European. Some folks at work have wondered if he is gay, but he has a girlfriend.

And not all gay men act effeminate. Rock Hudson was gay, and everyone was surprised. He came across as a man's man.

How can you tell? It is like the joke that was going around a few years back.

Q- How does a kid know when it is time to leave Neverland?

A- When the big hand touches the little hand.

 

[freeatlast]

Luke in all honesty I think it would be very rare for a man who is truly a heterosexual-to do those things unless they had some medical problem with their body working correctly or they have a voice that is out of their control.

Now I am not ruling it out, but I do think it is rare and I have never witnessed it to the extent you have described. Yes some small characteristics but not the extent you mentioned. I think one problem is that our society tends to define a real man as macho with a stubbly beard and who carries himself like a warrior instead of the meek and mild way we should be coming across as followers of Christ. Many men and the society in general seem to think that a real man needs to be intimidating and that is simply not true. I believe that Jesus came across as a real man and never had the macho attitude pouring from him.

As to your question, no it would not offend me or upset me as long as it was not intentional. I do believe that a male needs to do all they can to be sure that by sight they look like a male, hair and clothes, and a female should look like a female, hair and clothes, and neither should purposely dress or wear their hair or put on clothing in a manner where they might be seen as the opposite gender.
This is what makes a real man;
http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/IsThereAManinTheHousePT1.mp3

http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/IsThereAManinTheHousePT2.mp3

http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/IsThereAManinTheHousePT3.mp3

http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/IsThereAManinTheHousePT4.mp3

 

[Luke2427]

Luke in all honesty I think it would be very rare for a man who is truly a heterosexual-to do those things unless they had some medical problem with their body working correctly or they have a voice that is out of their control.

Now I am not ruling it out, but I do think it is rare and I have never witnessed it to the extent you have described. Yes some small characteristics but not the extent you mentioned. I think one problem is that our society tends to define a real man as macho with a stubbly beard and who carries himself like a warrior instead of the meek and mild way we should be coming across as followers of Christ. Many men and the society in general seem to think that a real man needs to be intimidating and that is simply not true. I believe that Jesus came across as a real man and never had the macho attitude pouring from him.

As to your question, no it would not offend me or upset me as long as it was not intentional. I do believe that a male needs to do all they can to be sure that by sight they look like a male, hair and clothes, and a female should look like a female, hair and clothes, and neither should purposely dress or wear their hair or put on clothing in a manner where they might be seen as the opposite gender.
This is what makes a real man;
http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/IsThereAManinTheHousePT1.mp3

http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/IsThereAManinTheHousePT2.mp3

http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/IsThereAManinTheHousePT3.mp3

http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/IsThereAManinTheHousePT4.mp3

I've known dozens of men who were married with children who had numerous characteristics considered feminine- very limp wrists, a particular movement of the head and neck, a certain kind of feminine hip movement when they walked and very distinct feminine characteristics in the way they speak (it's hard to explain in type but a certain almost whistle to the pronunciation of the letter "s" and a peculiarly feminine pursing of the lips littered throughout the speech pattern, etc...)

My question is this: as long as a man does not have sex with other men, is it ok for him to be very feminine in the way he moves, walks, talks, etc...?

 

[freeatlast]

I've known dozens of men who were married with children who had numerous characteristics considered feminine- very limp wrists, a particular movement of the head and neck, a certain kind of feminine hip movement when they walked and very distinct feminine characteristics in the way they speak (it's hard to explain in type but a certain almost whistle to the pronunciation of the letter "s" and a peculiarly feminine pursing of the lips littered throughout the speech pattern, etc...)

My question is this: as long as a man does not have sex with other men, is it ok for him to be very feminine in the way he moves, walks, talks, etc...?

From a biblical perspective as long as what he is doing is not on purpose to make him seem feminine then I see no reason to hold they are in any way violating any biblical principle or command.

 

[Luke2427]

From a biblical perspective as long as what he is doing is not on purpose to make him seem feminine then I see no reason to hold they are in any way violating any biblical principle or command.

But that's not my question.

Is it perfectly OKAY for a man to walk, talk, move, and behave in ways that are largely recognized as feminine?

Would you have a problem with it if your son was displaying very feminine characteristics along these lines, for example?

 

[DiamondLady]

But that's not my question.

Is it perfectly OKAY for a man to walk, talk, move, and behave in ways that are largely recognized as feminine?

Would you have a problem with it if your son was displaying very feminine characteristics along these lines, for example?

YES it is absolutely okay. One of our grandbabies, he's 3, (we call him Bubba)came out of the room the other day with a crown on his head, a tutu on, and click clack high heels on his feet. We said, "Hi Bubba!" He put his hands on his hips, looked at us and said, "Can't you see, I'm not Bubba. I'm a PRINCESS!" Last night at VBS he was wrestling in the floor with another little boy. He plays with his sister and can be a princess and in a minute or two be GI Joe. Doesn't make him gay, never will.

 

[abcgrad94]

What do you mean by "behave," Luke?

Here on BB, I've seen names tossed around like "crybaby," "emotional," and "liberal"--describing some of the men here who happen to have a more gentle, sensitive nature. Crying or displaying any other emotion besides anger seems to be a no-no for many Christian men, and those who display such are made fun of as less manly.

A person's voice pitch and clothing doesn't make him a man or woman. Getting dirty and sweaty doesn't make someone "more masculine" than another--and not all men swagger around like football players.

I think some of us are too paranoid about this sort of thing. Kind of like some Baptists who are afraid to raise their hands in church for fear they might be mistaken for a Charismatic.

 

[Scarlett O.]

YES it is absolutely okay. One of our grandbabies, he's 3, (we call him Bubba)came out of the room the other day with a crown on his head, a tutu on, and click clack high heels on his feet. We said, "Hi Bubba!" He put his hands on his hips, looked at us and said, "Can't you see, I'm not Bubba. I'm a PRINCESS!" Last night at VBS he was wrestling in the floor with another little boy. He plays with his sister and can be a princess and in a minute or two be GI Joe. Doesn't make him gay, never will.

Thank you, dear sister.

I've taught for 30 years and seen all kinds of children and young people. Some fit the mold of the out-door he-man or the prissy-tail little girl and some don't.

There's nothing more cruel than young people who've learned from their parents that anything short of being "Mr. T" makes you gay and treating others accordingly who are not gay - just not eligle for the Navy Seals.

 

[freeatlast]

But that's not my question.

Is it perfectly OKAY for a man to walk, talk, move, and behave in ways that are largely recognized as feminine?

Would you have a problem with it if your son was displaying very feminine characteristics along these lines, for example?

Yes I would have a problem and so would the Lord with it if a son was doing those things knowingly. However like I said I have never met anyone who was not homosexual or into cross dressing which is also sin, who does that to the extent you are describing.

I see you say that you have known several. This raise several questions. How do you know they are male? If male how do you know they are not homosexuals? If male how do you know they are not cross dressers?

Finally I would add this. If this is a real issue, and it would have to be a really big issue that raise questions I would first seek to find out if they have some medical disability causing this. If not then I would confront them in private, and by private I mean not telling another about it not even my wife, and lovingly explain about what I see and ask them if they know what is being perceived.

 

[freeatlast]

YES it is absolutely okay. One of our grandbabies, he's 3, (we call him Bubba)came out of the room the other day with a crown on his head, a tutu on, and click clack high heels on his feet. We said, "Hi Bubba!" He put his hands on his hips, looked at us and said, "Can't you see, I'm not Bubba. I'm a PRINCESS!" Last night at VBS he was wrestling in the floor with another little boy. He plays with his sister and can be a princess and in a minute or two be GI Joe. Doesn't make him gay, never will.

I would disagree that that kind of thing is OK even for a child. The parents need to step in and direct him to things that are more suited for boys. He should not be claiming to be a princess even at that age.

 

[Luke2427]

YES it is absolutely okay. One of our grandbabies, he's 3, (we call him Bubba)came out of the room the other day with a crown on his head, a tutu on, and click clack high heels on his feet. We said, "Hi Bubba!" He put his hands on his hips, looked at us and said, "Can't you see, I'm not Bubba. I'm a PRINCESS!" Last night at VBS he was wrestling in the floor with another little boy. He plays with his sister and can be a princess and in a minute or two be GI Joe. Doesn't make him gay, never will.

What about when he's 15 and he acts effeminate, not intermittently, but all of the time?

Will that be a problem for you then, if that comes to pass?

 

[abcgrad94]

I would disagree that that kind of thing is OK even for a child. The parents need to step in and direct him to things that are more suited for boys. He should not be claiming to be a princess even at that age.

Chapter and verse, or is this another one of your many, many opinions?

 

[freeatlast]

What do you mean by "behave," Luke?

Here on BB, I've seen names tossed around like "crybaby," "emotional," and "liberal"--describing some of the men here who happen to have a more gentle, sensitive nature. Crying or displaying any other emotion besides anger seems to be a no-no for many Christian men, and those who display such are made fun of as less manly.

A person's voice pitch and clothing doesn't make him a man or woman. Getting dirty and sweaty doesn't make someone "more masculine" than another--and not all men swagger around like football players.

I think some of us are too paranoid about this sort of thing. Kind of like some Baptists who are afraid to raise their hands in church for fear they might be mistaken for a Charismatic.

I certainly agree with what you have said, but from what I am reading Luke is describing something much more pronounced and suspicious then what you are talking about.

 

[Luke2427]

What do you mean by "behave," Luke?

It is hard to explain in writing.

Have you ever seen some of these interior decorating shows where these men walk, talk and move very differently from other men? (No, not all interior decorator men are effeminate by any means)

Do you remember the show, In Living Color? There were two characters portrayed on that show as gay guys commentating on movies and they would give the movie "two snaps and a twist" and such like that?

The way these men move, etc... is distinctly feminine.

Now, some men walk and talk and act just like these men who are openly gay even though they themselves are not gay.

Is it okay to do so?

Here on BB, I've seen names tossed around like "crybaby," "emotional," and "liberal"--describing some of the men here who happen to have a more gentle, sensitive nature. Crying or displaying any other emotion besides anger seems to be a no-no for many Christian men, and those who display such are made fun of as less manly.

I've not seen this. I bet you'd be hard pressed to produce an example.

I find that manliness is far more criticized in this culture today than a lack of it.

A person's voice pitch and clothing doesn't make him a man or woman. Getting dirty and sweaty doesn't make someone "more masculine" than another--and not all men swagger around like football players.

Some men who are not gay do walk, talk and act like very effeminate men who are gay.

Is this okay?

 

[freeatlast]

Chapter and verse, or is this another one of your many, many opinions?

If you want a chapter and verse as in absolute wording of what I have said there is none. The same challenge could be given to prove the Trinity is not real so it is not really one that is used when the truth is desired. The issue is that God has made it clear that males are to be distinct from females in how they dress, the kind of work, and even their hair length and how they look. My comments were to say that it is easier to train a child at that age then one who is a teen or older.
It is the parents responsibility to train them up in the way they are to go and pretending they are the opposite gender is not the way they are to go nor is it wise to allow it to go on and possibly take root.
I would not dress my 3 year old daughter in a dress so short that it always showed her bottom. I would teach her at modesty as soon as she could understand speech. I think the same principle applies here. I would be teaching my young son things that are masculine even at that age and correcting him if he chooses things that are feminine.

 

[humblethinker]

As a society, we are utterly erasing the distinctions between male and female and embracing a gender neutral mentallity that I think to be mistaken. Some people (men and women) have certain mannerisms they might have learned by osmosis and are unintentional, but I think we need to lovingly teach otherwise.

Should the ladies of the church who are 'in the know' advise other more 'naive' ladies to pluck, shave or wax? Allowing bearded women in the church is a slippery slope and is the introduction to all kinds of confusion.
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ok, just kidding!

Hos, would you highly discourage parents allowing a daughter to be a 'tomboy'?

 

[Luke2427]

A person's voice pitch and clothing doesn't make him a man or woman. Getting dirty and sweaty doesn't make someone "more masculine" than another--and not all men swagger around like football players.

Yea, but I think we need to be honest and forthright here and also note that being a sissy in general is a factor that is inconsistent with what it means to be a man.

You don't want anyone to swing the pendulum too far and advocate manliness be defined by football players. I concur.

But don't let it swing back too far a redefine manliness in some context where a person can be a sissy and be considered perfectly manly.

Let's have balance.

 

[humblethinker]

Yea, but I think we need to be honest and forthright here and also note that being a sissy in general is a factor that is inconsistent with what it means to be a man.

You don't want anyone to swing the pendulum too far and advocate manliness be defined by football players. I concur.

But don't let it swing back too far a redefine manliness in some context where a person can be a sissy and be considered perfectly manly.

Let's have balance.

Should women be sissies? I think this word would be perjorative for male or female.