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Is EVEN The Faith To Believe A Gift From/Of God?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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preacher4truth
Active Member
I'm not trying to be anti-intellectual here...
...but does anyone else cringe when they hear the word "LEXICON" used more than once in say, A MONTH??!!!
No, he has a valid point.
I'm not trying to be anti-intellectual here...
...but does anyone else cringe when they hear the word "LEXICON" used more than once in say, A MONTH??!!!
:laugh: I do, and I was shocked to see that it is being used by.....athletes. No, I'm not kidding.
Kevin Slowey is a pitcher for the Minnesota Twins. In his last six starts his record is 0-6. Here's what he said about his performance after losing last night:
"I don't think I have the lexicon to describe how disappointed I am in how I threw today and how I have thrown most of the year, to be honest with you,'' Slowey said.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/130002568.html
The rich man died.
Lazarus died also.
The rich man lifted up his eyes and saw Lazarus in Abraham's bosom.
He said, "Father Abraham send Lazarus that he may tip his finger in water and cool my tongue for I am tormented in this flame."
Context gives meaning, not lexicons.
They were dead.
Lazarus was with Abraham, and with God.
The rich man was separated from Abraham and God and would be for all eternity. He was not a corpse. He was not lifeless. He was dead--separated from God, and yet alive. Death means separation--both before the separation of the spirit and the body (physical death) and after.
There is also is spiritual death--separation from God caused by sin.
If one is not ready to face the context of the Bible, and what the Bible says about a word, no amount of lexicons will help that person.
Agreed, and while faith is part of the equation, it's silly to think this is a separate stand alone gift. If it were, Christ would look foolish on many occasions questioning the lack of faith of some while praising and being amazed by great faith of others when He encountered it.
That is an awesome point! Consider the Centurion in Matthew 8. Jesus heals his servant and He MARVELS at the amount of faith the man had. This is a roman Gentile that amazes Jesus.
10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!
If Jesus 'gifted' this man with faith why would he marvel at it?
In fact, there is another refutation of Calvinism just a few verses later:
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.
Jesus acknowledges the man believes, He finds faith in him so he grants his grace upon his ailing servant, and heals him. Calvinism asserts that Jesus grants you the ability to believe.
Again, there is seperate works done by each member of the Trinity, as the HS the ONE to bring conviction/repentance/enabling grace/faith to believe and receive jesus as messiah!
Conviction, yes. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is explained and defined in John 16. But faith is not a part of it.
You or any of the others here have ever shown me where God gives faith to an unsaved person. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. God doesn't zap people with faith so that they can be all of a sudden be saved. Show me that concept from Scripture.
Calvinists say that unregenerated people are spiritual corpses, they are spiritually dead. Yet, you say that when unsaved people die their spirit--an apparently alive and aware spirit--goes to Hell where they are tormented. So which is it?:
1. God enlivens an unsaved person's spirit at the time of their death so they can be tormented.
2. After their body dies, unsaved people's spirits have just enough life in them to be tormented in Hell, but not enough life in them to understand the Gospel unto regeneration when their body is alive.
3. At the time of death an unsaved person's dead spirit is made alive so that it can discern its spiritual condition, to know it is to suffer eternal death.
4. Something else.
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pretty basic!
the Spirit is alive in the sense that it is awake and knows what is going on, BUT the saints have it awaken to be able to understand God in a saving fashion, while the sinners spirit is still oblvious to having "knowlege/awareness" of God in a saving fashion!
reaise to a cal, that 'dead' refers to the inability that someone can come to know God in a saving fashion in and by themselves, as depraved and unable to go that way 'naturally"
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Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Doesn't that sound like a really good excuse for those who aren't saved to you?
Why not just submit to the clear revelation of the text and admit that God has provided all that is needed for them to clearly know, understand and accept God's revelation but they freely choose to rebel and thus are justly condemned without any excuses?
I think it is unfair to accuse Calvinists of what you are saying. They refer to sinners being "dead" because That is what the Bible does (Eph. 1). As to what exactly that means, I think you would have disagreements... but nobody is saying that an unsaved person is simply a body without a spirit.
I think both sides would do well to accept that throughout the bible, the words "dead, death, died...etc." are used in different ways: Physical death of a body, a spiritual condition of those unsaved, the eternal separation of a soul from God's blessing presence (ie, "the second death"). It would be foolish to accuse someone of being inconsistent for saying both that a sinner is "dead in sin," that they "will die for thier sins," and that they will then ultimatly face, "the second death." That's 3 deaths!!!! Yet that is exactly what the Bible says, so it must be speaking about somewhat different (if related) things.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
It relates to both in that both have received revelation from God which is "clearly seen" and "understood" thus making them without excuse. They are held accountable to the level of that revelation. As I've quoted before:
God has revealed Himself in creation ( Romans 1:18-20 ) and in human conscience ( Romans 2:12-16 ). Paul said that each individual will be judged according to his response to these two revelations of God. To those who respond positively, God gives more knowledge—as He did to the Ethiopian eunuch and the Roman centurion, Cornelius (see Acts 8,10 ). Those who are lost will be judged according to their response to the spiritual light they have received ( Hebrews 4:12-13 )
That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked ( Luke 12:47-48 ).
Skandelon,
It sounds as though according to you, there are large groups of people that to whom no missionaries have taken the gospel precisely BECAUSE there has been no one in that people group for a long time, maybe centuries, that has responded positively to God's natural revelation. (Is that what you are saying?)
If so, it seems odd that given man's free-will (as you have described it), that the places where the Gospel does not go would be in large groups, rather than God making sure the gospel goes to individual people within those unreached groups.
Also, did God make sure I heard the Gospel at a very young age BECAUSE I was already starting to respond correctly to him. (I know I'm speculating here, but I'll assume your answer to be no for one more question)...
Lastly...If not, was God showing me favoritism by allowing me to grow up in a christian home, giving me blessings and opportunities to hear the gospel that not everyone has? Sounds like God choosing to give some more grace than others to me.
It sounds as though according to you, there are large groups of people that to whom no missionaries have taken the gospel precisely BECAUSE there has been no one in that people group for a long time, maybe centuries, that has responded positively to God's natural revelation. (Is that what you are saying?)
If so, it seems odd that given man's free-will (as you have described it), that the places where the Gospel does not go would be in large groups, rather than God making sure the gospel goes to individual people within those unreached groups.
Also, did God make sure I heard the Gospel at a very young age BECAUSE I was already starting to respond correctly to him. (I know I'm speculating here, but I'll assume your answer to be no for one more question)...
Lastly...If not, was God showing me favoritism by allowing me to grow up in a christian home, giving me blessings and opportunities to hear the gospel that not everyone has? Sounds like God choosing to give some more grace than others to me.
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