Is EVEN The Faith To Believe A Gift From/Of God?

[webdog]

It relates to both in that both have received revelation from God which is "clearly seen" and "understood" thus making them without excuse. They are held accountable to the level of that revelation. As I've quoted before:

God has revealed Himself in creation ( Romans 1:18-20 ) and in human conscience ( Romans 2:12-16 ). Paul said that each individual will be judged according to his response to these two revelations of God. To those who respond positively, God gives more knowledge—as He did to the Ethiopian eunuch and the Roman centurion, Cornelius (see Acts 8,10 ). Those who are lost will be judged according to their response to the spiritual light they have received ( Hebrews 4:12-13 )

That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked ( Luke 12:47-48 ).

To your two "c" revelations I add two more...they are my "four c's"...creation, conscience, circumstances (Acts 17:26-27, and the desire for ceaseless existence (immortality, Ecc. 3:11)

This is clearly God reaching out to man first, providing him with everything needed to truly seek Him, and condemning those who reject His grace.

 

[Skandelon]

Skandelon,

It sounds as though according to you, there are large groups of people that to whom no missionaries have taken the gospel precisely BECAUSE there has been no one in that people group for a long time, maybe centuries, that has responded positively to God's natural revelation. (Is that what you are saying?)

Not necessarily. The bible is not perfectly clear on this point, so I do believe there isn't a perfect answer. However, it does seem to reveal that there is some level of "blood on the hands" of messengers who are disobedient, which seems to indicate that disobedience might be the cause of why some 'groups' don't hear the gospel. Either way, I trust God is just in dealing with men's response to whatever light they have received, whether "general" or "special."

Lastly...If not, was God showing me favoritism by allowing me to grow up in a christian home, giving me blessings and opportunities to hear the gospel that not everyone has? Sounds like God choosing to give some more grace than others to me.

Matthew 11:21:
"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

You know what this verse indicates to me?
1) That God is not obligated to give the same level of revelation to all people. If they have the creation/conscience/circumstances they have what is sufficient to respond to that level of revelation and thus are without excuse.

2) More light can have an effect. People's natural condition doesn't prevent them from being persuaded by more light (as Calvinism's dogma indicates). So, the more revelation, the better...but that doesn't mean its necessary for a response or in any way deserved.

Make sense?

 

[12strings]

I understand your position better now, thank you.

 

[DHK]

AGAIN...spiritual death refers to the Fact that our spirit is alive in the sense that we are humans made in Image of God, and our spirits are alive

Unless you believe as I do, that death = separation, look at what you posted, as your own belief:


Death = live ("spirit is alive)

Seems like a contradiction to me.

as that part of us is eternal, going to heaven or hell, but we cannot get that relationship back with God until he enables it to be such, by extending and applying Grace from/of the Cross towards us, and THAT allows us to be able to "hear" the message of the Cross and place faith in Him and get saved!

Now this is confusing!!

You believe that an unsaved person (spiritually dead) dies (is physically dead), and will someday stand before God (at the Second Death) where Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of fire. So this thrice dead person will be alive in an eternal hell.

At the same time you believe that a new born baby, having a depraved nature, is dead and will remain spiritually dead, totally depraved, unable to obey God's command to repent, because he has no life in him. A person who has died three times is alive. A person who has never been died is dead already. I wouldn't want to hear you explaining the plan of salvation to the unsaved.

 

[JesusFan]

Unless you believe as I do, that death = separation, look at what you posted, as your own belief:

Death = live ("spirit is alive)

Seems like a contradiction to me.
Now this is confusing!!

Not at all!

Same way Bible states this, that we are physically alive/spiritual dead in the sense still alive as in Image of God. but CANNOT commune with God/establish a relationship with god, as deaf and dumb to respond to God in any way different than what our sin nature 'allows"

You believe that an unsaved person (spiritually dead) dies (is physically dead), and will someday stand before God (at the Second Death) where Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of fire. So this thrice dead person will be alive in an eternal hell.

again, SAME way the Bible states it!

At the same time you believe that a new born baby, having a depraved nature, is dead and will remain spiritually dead, totally depraved, unable to obey God's command to repent, because he has no life in him. A person who has died three times is alive. A person who has never been died is dead already. I wouldn't want to hear you explaining the plan of salvation to the unsaved.

Difference here is that the Infant would be 'covered" by the Grace of the Cross until Age when God would consider Him to be personally accountible for his sins!


saints and sinners BOTh have the 'same" life from god in them, its just that the spirtual side of the saint has been allow/enabled to now have established a personal connection/relationship to God...

sinners have JUST physical body, and a living spirit that is 'blind: to knowing God ina saving fashion!

 

[InTheLight]

sinners have JUST physical body, and a living spirit that is 'blind: to knowing God ina saving fashion!

I see. So God enables every person's dead spirit to be just enough alive to be blind.

Yes, makes perfect sense.... :BangHead:

 

[JesusFan]

I see. So God enables every person's dead spirit to be just enough alive to be blind.

Yes, makes perfect sense.... :BangHead:

Again, ALL people have a physical/spiritual 'component" to them, being made in image of God...

just that the spirit side of sinners does see/know/realise etc, just 'blind" umanle to recogize and perceive god as theur savious UNLESS God enables that!

 

[webdog]

Again, ALL people have a physical/spiritual 'component" to them, being made in image of God...

just that the spirit side of sinners does see/know/realise etc, just 'blind" umanle to recogize and perceive god as theur savious UNLESS God enables that!

How does a dead person realize anything? We are seeing first hand the consequences of believing total inability.

 

[Iconoclast]

How does a dead person realize anything? We are seeing first hand the consequences of believing total inability.

6But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth

looks like Paul did not have a problem with it:thumbs:

 

[webdog]

6But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth

looks like Paul did not have a problem with it:thumbs:

Of course this is speaking of being physically alive while spiritually dead...not spiritually dead while spiritually alive (slightly) and spiritually blind.

You are right, Paul had no problem with such error

 

[JesusFan]

[

QUOTE=webdog;1732424]Of course this is speaking of being physically alive while spiritually dead...not spiritually dead while spiritually alive (slightly) and spiritually blind.

You are right, Paul had no problem with such error [/QUOTE]

easy way to see this would be that sinners would 'see" except are color blind to color red! And the Cross of jesus covered by that!

sainst are those sinners whom God grants them 'spiritually" glasses rto see also the red!

 

[webdog]

easy way to see this would be that sinners would 'see" except are color blind to color red! And the Cross of jesus covered by that!

Dead people aren't color blind if you equate spiritual death with spiritual inability.

 

[JesusFan]

Dead people aren't color blind if you equate spiritual death with spiritual inability.

Their spitually inability to come to God in a saving fashion on their own is the directly caused by the fact their spiritually natures no longer 'register" the person of God naturally...

 

[webdog]

Their spitually inability to come to God in a saving fashion on their own is the directly caused by the fact their spiritually natures no longer 'register" the person of God naturally...

 

[Greektim]

Not sure if it has been mentioned since we are on page 12, but I think Phil 1:29 is pretty clear:

For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,