KeithS said:
Jarthur001, the only problem with your list of verses is that they seem to imply God grants some more faith than others (Rom. 12:3). Also, do all of these verses really refer to the faith necessary for salvation as in Ephesians, or do some of these refer to how we conduct our walk after salvation?
If God assigns us a measure of faith, by what standard is it assigned and measured? God's good pleasure? Does that make God somewhat responsible for a sometimes impotent body of believers?
By the way, I know these threads can sometimes turn heated, but I am truly curious as to your view on this. Thanks.
KeithS,
Good to meet you.
You can call me James.
Jarthur001, the only problem with your list of verses is that they seem to imply God grants some more faith than others (Rom. 12:3).
I feel this is more then fair to ask. In fact I was looking for it to be asked.
I think it helps if we speak of faith as belief. The word is the same in the Greek as you may know. Believing in something is easier for me to talk about.
1st, we all must agree that this power to believe/faith does in fact come from God. Rom 12:3 is clear on this, hands down.
No one can twist this any other way like has been shown they try to do in Eph 2.
2nd, We either believe in something, or we do not. To say “I kinda believe” means you have not put your full trust into the subject. If this power to believe comes from God, what does this tell us?
It is clear that all men have the mental ability to believe. That is, unless God has made it so that they are not blessed with that mental capability. But has Holy Spirit worked all men, removing all obstacles found in the sin nature thereby giving them faith in God? No.
To the elect of God, He has done this to the level which they have in turn, believed in God. But we have even more blessings then this. As believers we are not only given the gift of faith , but also other gifts. This is the point of Romans 12. Faith is but the 1st in a list of elements/gifts given by God found in Romans 12. The point is not to think highly of yourself for being smarter then others, for you have better understanding that makes it easy for you to believe in God. God gave you that understanding and therefore God gave you that believing power.
Faith along with all the other gifts come from God....by grace the passage says
Man under the “full control of his sin nature”, means his will is depraved to the point
he will never choose to believe. Some will say, “men may be saved if they will only believe…and you have already said all man this mental capability.” But listen..we all believe this statement to be true, both the Calvinist and the non-Calvinist. But the will of man is the problem. Mans sin nature tells him there is no need to do this. Man will come to Christ unless he be drawn.
John 5:40
Ye will not come to me that ye might have life
This is when Holy Spirit removes the blindness from the sinner, and in doing so, he now understands his need for God. This of course is also when man is given the power to believe, for he is no longer bound by his sin nature.
3rd, I talked about this a little bit just before. All of knowledge, all of wisdom, all of grace, all of love do not belong to us. God gives each of these elements to us on levels in which He alone wills to do. I now see that some may not agree with this notion that IQ and faith come from the same, only because all are said to have IQ at some level. But this is the very point is it not?
Remember the point of the OP. Who gives faith?
Likewise… who gives our IQ? Is it not God?
Who gives us means to be educated in our schools? Not your mother and father, for you did not choose them. Not your national education program, for you did not ask to be born in this nation. Not the books you read, for you need to read (education) and have some wisdom (IQ) in order to read, and you must have others write books for you in order to read.
Your education came from God.
All that you have can be trace back to God. If you have it, God gave it to you. Any and all knowledge came from God. Any and all wisdom came from God. Any and all faith comes from God.
Do you believe in God? It is because He has come into your life making it so you have that faith.
Rom. 12:3 clearly says faith/believing power comes from God. And that answers the OP.
James kinda pulls this all together for us. In James it is clear once again that God is the one that gives faith. Also it is clear that some are “rich” in faith and others not so rich. The rich in faith are the ones God has chosen to give believing faith to.
James 2:5
5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?
YOU SAID......
Also, do all of these verses really refer to the faith necessary for salvation as in Ephesians, or do some of these refer to how we conduct our walk after salvation
?
Yet another question. One needs only to think about this. That our faith as a religion comes from and is based on our Faith in our God. Yes we at times use the word in a broad way. But what we mean when we say it is our “faith”, is that we have placed our faith in our God. The writers of the Bible does this very thing. So if you reread those verses with this in mind you will clearly see this.
Thanks…James
