Is Glorification Certain for the Justified?

[Rippon]

Are you only looking for answers from a Flip-a-Coin perspective? Or do you actually have a desire to understand what the scriptures actually mean?

James, you're being rude. Franklin was asking straightforward questions that inexorably lead to just one biblical answer. What is it?

 

[JamesL]

James, you're being rude. Franklin was asking straightforward questions that inexorably lead to just one biblical answer. What is it?

I wasn't necessarily trying to be rude.

I started offering a view, which upholds the context of Romans 8-11, and also sees Paul's thoughts thru those four chapters as flowing seamlessly.

See posts 2, 5

Then, in post 7, frnklinmonroe said that my view sounds more like sanctification rather than glorification

So in post 9, I explained that there are two ways to look at sanctification, and started to tie in this line of thought as it relates to a biblical view of glorification

But apparently, OP seems only interested in picking from options A and B. See post 11, where he thanked me for my reply, then continued along his original line of questioning.

That's all I was getting at. If he's only interested in the views which thoroughly misrepresent the issue, I'll step aside

I'd love to continue. But not if I'm just talking to a brick wall. I just figured I'd ask a very pointed question to see what the OP is looking for.

 

[Yeshua1]

KJV Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.​

So then, if all "whom he justified" are certain to be glorified can we also expect that all those that are predestinated are "them he also called"? Is there any exception to God's "called" ones being predestined? Could an individual be called without being predestined first?

God would have Elected them beforehand out to be saved by death of Christ, so His predestined Will would be the direct causal agent it would seem...

 

[franklinmonroe]

Are you only looking for answers from a Flip-a-Coin perspective? Or do you actually have a desire to understand what the scriptures actually mean? ...

Actually, I think you're jumping ahead a bit. I am trying to establish the meaning in these verses. After that we could try to define the terms.

Is not this text attempting to state that all that are justified are glorified? That all that are predestined are called? That all that are called are justified? Is there something here in this text that would indicate that only some are?

 

[JamesL]

Actually, I think you're jumping ahead a bit. I am trying to establish the meaning in these verses. After that we could try to define the terms.

Is not this text attempting to state that all that are justified are glorified? NO

That all that are predestined are called? YES

That all that are called are justified? YES

I've been dealing with these issues in our Wednesday night bible study. The very first thing I pointed out is that Paul had one seamless line of thought through 4 chapters (8-11)

HOWEVER....There are several ways this cat must be skinned:

Context
Word usage
Phrase usage
Parallel passages.

The biggest problem is that the context cannot be seen without comparing parallel passages, word usage, and phrase usage

The parallel passages cannot be readily noticed without understanding the context, plus the different ways in which the same thoughts are expressed in different words and phrases.

We FIRST spent six weeks on Romans 10:9-13, which is in the same full line of thought. After spending that time in chapter 10, it became much easier to demonstrate where Paul was coming from in chapters 8-9, and predestination as it relates to glorification

I was challenged in another thread to demonstrate my view of chapter 8, and I have mulled it over for two weeks. I also stated there that this is not a small endeavor.

Also, it takes me about two days to get one posts prepared on such an in depth topic. I just don't know if our ever-impatient mod has it in him to leave the thread alone long enough to get it done.

 

[Reformed]

KJV Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.​

Is there any question that those whom become justified will be eventually glorified by God? Can under any circumstances a truly justified person not reach glorification?

The verbs in question in Romans 8:30 are aorist indicative active. In other words they are actions that have the effect of continually taking place. This means that those who are justified have been justified, are presently justified, and will be justified. Paul used this type of language to communicate the certainty of his audience's predestination, justification, and glorification. These things are so certain that Paul could write in a way that communicated they have already taken place, even though they will not be completely realized until the eternal state.

 

[Iconoclast]

The verbs in question in Romans 8:30 are aorist indicative active. In other words they are actions that have the effect of continually taking place. This means that those who are justified have been justified, are presently justified, and will be justified. Paul used this type of language to communicate the certainty of his audience's predestination, justification, and glorification. These things are so certain that Paul could write in a way that communicated they have already taken place, even though they will not be completely realized until the eternal state.

Yes... a very helpful post:wavey::wavey::thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

The verbs in question in Romans 8:30 are aorist indicative active. In other words they are actions that have the effect of continually taking place. This means that those who are justified have been justified, are presently justified, and will be justified. Paul used this type of language to communicate the certainty of his audience's predestination, justification, and glorification. These things are so certain that Paul could write in a way that communicated they have already taken place, even though they will not be completely realized until the eternal state.

Would that tie into paul stating that right now we are seated in christ in the Heavens then?

 

[Reformed]

Would that tie into paul stating that right now we are seated in christ in the Heavens then?

You mean this passage?

Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Yes. The word for 'seated' is also an aorist indicative active tense.

 

[Yeshua1]

You mean this passage?

Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Yes. The word for 'seated' is also an aorist indicative active tense.

Which takes us back into the truth all saved get glorified, as to God irs already a done deal, but to us, has to be worked out in our time frame...

 

[OldRegular]

It seems you have answered "Yes" to the OP question.

After over 140 views there have only been 4 responders. Why is that? Is this a difficult question?

No! In fact it is a simple question and can be answered directly from Scripture, some of which Rippon quoted.

Romans 8:28-30
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

After reading the OP again I see you answered your own question. There really is no room or reason for debate!