Thank you for your response
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Is God Patient With His Decree?
- Thread starter Baptizo
- Start date
- Status
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You can keep making that claim but the verses do not but rather prove that your view is false.
There are so many examples of free will found the Scripture, I can't begin to count them.
Hosea 4:6
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."
These Jews were rejecting the Law of God! The righteousness of God is found in the Law, but no man can keep the Law, specifically speaking of the 10 commandments.
The sacrificial system of the Law is where man met with God in knowledge of Salvation, in the sacrifice of Christ.
These Jews willfully rejected this knowledge in order to be saved, and in return the Lord rejected them.
No. The verse hinges on the previous 8 verses. It is not about the "all" but about the coming day of the Lord and God's timing. The "all" is not relevant to the passage.
God has already indicated displeasure in the destruction of the wicked but desires that even those who will perish would instead have come to repentance (Ezekiel 18 and 33, for example).
So one could interpret the passage to mean God is expressing that desire that even those who will remain condemned be saved.
But God also is waiting until until the appropriate time based on those who are being saved (Revelation 6). So the "all" could be more limited in scope.
In the end, however, the passage is more than that one verse. It does not hinge on the "all".
Ekklesian
Member
Yep. You got to the heart of the matter.
Haven't read the whole thread, and probably won't.
But God's longsuffering is "to us-ward," His vessels of mercy.
Ekklesian
Member
Seeing that you're arguing that foreknowledge negates longsuffering, at least you're your noncalvinist leanings to their logical conclusion...that God is limited and not all-knowing. If that's the case I commend you and leave you to your open theism.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
If God has, via calvinism's divine determinism, determined all that will happen then to say He is long suffering is illogical.
Baptizo
Active Member
LOL in none of my posts did I ever make the claim that God is limited in any way. You might think that is my logical conclusion, but the alternative that you subscribe to is a philosophical idea that is rooted in paganism.
The Biblical answer is that God has perfect knowledge of the future, yet his perfect knowledge is not the cause every human action in time.
With that, I’ll leave you to your deterministic fatalism.
Ekklesian
Member
Like most things we learn of God, let's just say it's beyond comprehension.
Ekklesian
Member
Okay. But you just argued that foreknowledge negates patience. If foreknowledge is an attribute of God, wouldn't it follow that patience is not?
Ekklesian
Member
I'll just go ahead and cut to the chase. You will, rightly, affirm that God is omniscient. But your argument that foreknowledge or determinism would seem to invalidate God's virtue of longsuffering toward us, would also invalidate His expressed anger toward the disobedient.
Paul anticipated your objection when he said, Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Ultimately that's what every argument against Calvinism boils down to.
Baptizo wilt say unto me, What reason doth he yet to have longsuffering? For who hath resisted his will?
The answer to that is easy, because Paul answered it for us. Now, you may not find that answer satisfying, and if not, then your issue is with the Spirit, and not with Calvinists, and you may have to re-evaluate the premises you're arguing from.
Paul anticipated your objection when he said, Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Ultimately that's what every argument against Calvinism boils down to.
Baptizo wilt say unto me, What reason doth he yet to have longsuffering? For who hath resisted his will?
The answer to that is easy, because Paul answered it for us. Now, you may not find that answer satisfying, and if not, then your issue is with the Spirit, and not with Calvinists, and you may have to re-evaluate the premises you're arguing from.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
No, the reality is that the C/R view is illogical.
Why do the C/R's always fall back to mystery, beyond comprehension in your case, when they have no answer for the non biblical claims they make?
I would guess that you just hope people will accept your non answers.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well we can always depend upon a calvinist to bring out this overused trope.
But we see that scripture answers your question
Act_7:51 "You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.
So it would seem that large numbers of people have and still do resist God's will.
What every argument against Calvinism boils down to is the fact that calvinism is not biblical but have come from pagan roots.
Ekklesian
Member
Last edited:
Ekklesian
Member
IOW, we can always depend upon a calvinist to cite to the Scriptures!
Baptizo
Active Member
Clearly you're just antisemitic.
Of course, you’re quick to play that card when someone disagrees with your views.
I’m well aware of some of the nonsense you post over at the Fundamentals forums and I’m here to tell you, those tactics aren’t going to work here at the Baptist Board. We’re smarter than that.
Last edited:
...AND, "Ever and anon the non-Cal cries, why doth He still find fault?"
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you should actually provide actual contextualized proof of your errant views.
The cults as with the calvinists pull verses out of context or change the meaning of words in the attempt to support their view.
It is sad that so many people have fallen for that philosophy. But I would have to say they think it makes them special as God picked them out of all those sinners to be saved.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Of course we find fault with a philosophy that comes from pagan roots and tries to pass itself of as Christian. What surprises me is that so many people actually fall for the ruse.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Out of context as always.
- Status