Is God Racist

[Quantrill]

Deuteronomy 7:6 “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Was Abram a Jew? This verse doesn't say he was.

When did the term Jew begin being used? Hint: It was after the Kingdoms split.

Now, what does Romans 9:6-8 say?

"But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring."

Guess what. The children of the promise come from every nation, tribe and tongue. So much for that racist curse you think God has established.

The point I made is that God chose the Jews over all other races of people on the earth. Your argument as to who is a Jew is empty. Who was God talking to in (Deut 7:6)? The Jews, or Israelites if the term Jew bothers you.

Again, you're not paying attention. God's division of Noah's sons pertained to all of mankind. It is how all of mankind was divided. It depicts how God deals with all of mankind. From Shem comes the blessing. From Ham comes servitude, and no blessing. From Japheth comes enlargement and he partakes of Shem's blessings.

God is not saying no one from Ham will be saved and everyone in Shem and Japheth are saved. But when He continues with the salvation He brings, these three characterzations will play a role. Thus in God' choice of Israel, He chose Abraham who was of Shem, the place of the blessing.

God chose Israel above the people of Japheth. God chose Israel above the people of Ham. (Deut. 7:6) How racist of Him.

(Rom 9:6-8) doesn't take away the lack of blessing and curse upon Ham's descendants. Concerning mankind, they are servants to Shem and Japheth. (Gen. 9:25-27) It has nothing to do with an individuals opportunity to be saved. The curse and lack of blessing for Ham's descendants is not my opinion. It is the testimony of Scripture. You need to take off those PC glasses.

Also, (Rom. 9:6-8) is not a contrast between all the lost and saved, Jew or Gentile. It is a contrast between the true Israelite of God, and the worldly Israelite, not of God. "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (6) The true Israel of God is made up of the Israelites chosen as a child of promise. The believing Israelites. Just because God has his people of the Gentiles who are also children of promise, does not include them into the nation of Israel. The true Israel must first be of physical Israel. "my kinsmen according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:3)

Quantrill

 

[AustinC]

The point I made is that God chose the Jews over all other races of people on the earth. Your argument as to who is a Jew is empty. Who was God talking to in (Deut 7:6)? The Jews, or Israelites if the term Jew bothers you.

Again, you're not paying attention. God's division of Noah's sons pertained to all of mankind. It is how all of mankind was divided. It depicts how God deals with all of mankind. From Shem comes the blessing. From Ham comes servitude, and no blessing. From Japheth comes enlargement and he partakes of Shem's blessings.

God is not saying no one from Ham will be saved and everyone in Shem and Japheth are saved. But when He continues with the salvation He brings, these three characterzations will play a role. Thus in God' choice of Israel, He chose Abraham who was of Shem, the place of the blessing.

God chose Israel above the people of Japheth. God chose Israel above the people of Ham. (Deut. 7:6) How racist of Him.

(Rom 9:6-8) doesn't take away the lack of blessing and curse upon Ham's descendants. Concerning mankind, they are servants to Shem and Japheth. (Gen. 9:25-27) It has nothing to do with an individuals opportunity to be saved. The curse and lack of blessing for Ham's descendants is not my opinion. It is the testimony of Scripture. You need to take off those PC glasses.

Also, (Rom. 9:6-8) is not a contrast between all the lost and saved, Jew or Gentile. It is a contrast between the true Israelite of God, and the worldly Israelite, not of God. "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (6) The true Israel of God is made up of the Israelites chosen as a child of promise. The believing Israelites. Just because God has his people of the Gentiles who are also children of promise, does not include them into the nation of Israel. The true Israel must first be of physical Israel. "my kinsmen according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:3)

Quantrill

God chose Abram as the person through which the promised one would come. He chose David, within Israel, as the person through whom the promised one would come. He chose Mary through whom the promised one would come.
Do you see how that works?
Do you see why Paul tells us "not all Israel is Israel?"

God is, therefore, not a racist. He is a God of election/choosing, but it has nothing to do with skin color.

 

[Hannahande]

a big no - end of discussion.

 

[Quantrill]

a big no - end of discussion.

Well, not exactly. Easier, yes, to say no and that is it. But there is more to it as has been shown.

Quantrill

 

[atpollard]

Thus it moves into the 'no blessing and curse' of Ham.

Did Christ die for the children of Ham as well?
Are the descendants of Ham numbered among:

And they sang a new song, saying:
"You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, [Revelation 5:9 NKJV]​

Does the Blood of Christ wash away the curse of Ham?

It is one thing to speak of "blessings" and "curses" on a national level among the unsaved multitude, but quite another to speak of "blessings" and "curses" within the body of Christ ... so this point must be clarified.

As a monergist to the core, the concept that the redemption of Christ was in any way insufficient or his Bride is in any way "cursed" is anathema to me.

Jesus loves me! This I know,
For the Bible tells me so;
Little ones to Him belong;
They are weak, but He is strong.

Jesus loves me! He who died
Heaven’s gate to open wide;
He will wash away my sin,
Let His little child come in.

Jesus loves me! He will stay
Close beside me all the way;
Thou hast bled and died for me,
I will henceforth live for Thee.

- Anna B. Warner (1860)​

 

[Dave G]

I'm surprised that this thread is still going on...

Anyone who seriously studies their Bible should already know that He created the "races" and that He takes a people out of all of them for His name-sake.

 

[atpollard]

I'm surprised that this thread is still going on...

Anyone who seriously studies their Bible should already know that He created the "races" and that He takes a people out of all of them for His name-sake.

Can you refute the Ham, Shem and Japeth fathering the "peoples" of Africa, Asia and Europe argument?

If not, then is it fair to say that the worlds great RELIGIONS have all come out of Asia?
Is it fair to say that Europe has dominated EXPLORATION and benefited from Asian Religions?
Is it fair to say that Africa, as a continent, has a general history of struggle and "bad luck"?

If none of these things are true, then there is nothing to consider.
If some of these things are true then it is fair to ask if Noah's blessing and curse was prophetic.

 

[Dave G]

Can you refute the Ham, Shem and Japeth fathering the "peoples" of Africa, Asia and Europe argument?

I'm not even interested in trying.

If not, then is it fair to say that the worlds great RELIGIONS have all come out of Asia?

I don't see the great religion of the Native Americans, often referred to as "Great Spirit Worship" coming out of Asia.
Nor do I see Roman, Greek and Norse "mythology" coming from that direction.

But many have and still do.

If not, then is it fair to say that the worlds great RELIGIONS have all come out of Asia?
Is it fair to say that Europe has dominated EXPLORATION and benefited from Asian Religions?
Is it fair to say that Africa, as a continent, has a general history of struggle and "bad luck"?

If none of these things are true, then there is nothing to consider.
If some of these things are true then it is fair to ask if Noah's blessing and curse was prophetic.

To answer this quote in detail, I'd say one thing...
To me, this discussion is not profitable, because it focuses too tightly on something that's well, speculative and...
Unprofitable, my friend.

Let's be grateful that He saved us, and that He is carrying through with His promises to His people...
Out of every tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ).

 

[atpollard]

I'm not even interested in trying.

... OK, I can accept that.

 

[Quantrill]

Did Christ die for the children of Ham as well?
Are the descendants of Ham numbered among:

And they sang a new song, saying:
"You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, [Revelation 5:9 NKJV]​

Does the Blood of Christ wash away the curse of Ham?

It is one thing to speak of "blessings" and "curses" on a national level among the unsaved multitude, but quite another to speak of "blessings" and "curses" within the body of Christ ... so this point must be clarified.

As a monergist to the core, the concept that the redemption of Christ was in any way insufficient or his Bride is in any way "cursed" is anathema to me.

Jesus loves me! This I know,
For the Bible tells me so;
Little ones to Him belong;
They are weak, but He is strong.

Jesus loves me! He who died
Heaven’s gate to open wide;
He will wash away my sin,
Let His little child come in.

Jesus loves me! He will stay
Close beside me all the way;
Thou hast bled and died for me,
I will henceforth live for Thee.

- Anna B. Warner (1860)​

Yes, Christ died for all.

Yes, many descendants of Ham will be saved.

I have clarified this point many times already.

Where have I said the Bride of Christ is cursed? These prophecies concerning Shem Ham and Japheth involve all of mankind. Not the Church directly.

I have said in these three divisions of mankind, Shem is blessed. Ham receives no blessing and is cursed. Japheth is enlarged and partakes of the blessings of Shem. These involve mankind as it is on earth. And it is always true and will always work that way, because God has said it.

There can be descendants of Ham that become Christian. No problem. But that doesn't remove the no blessing and curse from Hams descendants on earth. The race as a whole will be exactly as God says it will be.

Just like there are many descendants of Shem and Japheth who reject Christ. That doesn't change the blessing God promised to Shem and Japheth.

Quantrill

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Was Abram a Jew?

He was after he circumcised himself... oy vey

 

[Quantrill]

I'm not even interested in trying.

I don't see the great religion of the Native Americans, often referred to as "Great Spirit Worship" coming out of Asia.
Nor do I see Roman, Greek and Norse "mythology" coming from that direction.

But many have and still do.

To answer this quote in detail, I'd say one thing...
To me, this discussion is not profitable, because it focuses too tightly on something that's well, speculative and...
Unprofitable, my friend.

Let's be grateful that He saved us, and that He is carrying through with His promises to His people...
Out of every tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ).

It's not speculative to me. And it's not unprofitable to me. If it is to you, fine. It isn't to me.

Sure...stick your head in the sand and just be glad we are saved. Sounds good.

That's synonymous with no need to vote, God has saved us. No need to help that woman being attacked, God has saved us. No need to let America go to ****, God has saved us.

Strange.

Quantrill

 

[Dave G]

It's not speculative to me. And it's not unprofitable to me. If it is to you, fine. It isn't to me.

Sure...stick your head in the sand and just be glad we are saved. Sounds good.

That's synonymous with no need to vote, God has saved us. No need to help that woman being attacked, God has saved us. No need to let America go to ****, God has saved us.

Strange.

It's called trusting the Lord ( Proverbs 3:5-7 ), Quantrill.
To me, there's no need to go any farther than that...
But it also wasn't my intention to offend you, either.

I once had similar feelings on matters like this.

As for voting, I've come to realize that this isn't my world, I'm just passing through...
America ( and the rest of this world ) is in God's hands, not mine.

I'm not going to waste what little time He's given me here, worrying and trying to change things that it would take the power of God to change.
But I will help the woman that is being attacked.

May God bless you greatly, sir.

 

[Quantrill]

It's called trusting the Lord ( Proverbs 3:5-7 ), Quantrill.
To me, there's no need to go any farther than that.

As for voting, this isn't my world, I'm just passing through...
America ( and the rest of this world ) is in God's hands, not mine.

I'm not going to waste what little time He's given me here, worrying and trying to change things that it would take the power of God to change.
But I will help the woman that is being attacked.

May God bless you greatly, sir.

And if voting helps the woman being attacked? Would you help women by allowing the police to be defunded? And what political party is for defunding the police?

You need to reconsider your statement, 'this isn't my world'. It is where God has placed you, like it or not. It is an empty excuse to say God can do that if He wanted, so I won't worry about it. God works through people to accomplish His purpose.

That's like saying concerning the death penalty, well if God wants to kill them He can do it. Problem is, He gave man the responsibility to do it. You throw it back in the face of God, guess what? He says fine, don't do it. And you can live with the results of your decision. He throws it back in your face.

So don't vote. Pretend it is not important to you as a Christian. Pretend that God will do what He wants and you don't need to be a part. Then as the country goes to ****, you can blame God and not yourself. But what does God say?

I don't question people's Christianity who have the opinion you do. I do question their courage. It's easy to hide behind 'spiritual' matters. Easy to be conscientious objector. The problem is, doing nothing does something. It allows the enemy to have control.

Quantrill

 

[Dave G]

I don't question people's Christianity who have the opinion you do. I do question their courage. It's easy to hide behind 'spiritual' matters. Easy to be conscientious objector. The problem is, doing nothing does something. It allows the enemy to have control.

Quantrill,
You may question that if you wish.

I can assure you that I did my time...
I was a "Republican" and voted for them from the age of 18 ( in 1984 ) and the entire time that I was in the U.S. Navy from 1987 until 1997...
All 10 years of it and more.

I don't like the way that this world is being run, but I also know that I'm severely outnumbered by those who want what I do not...
A world run by people who do not love the Lord as I do.

I also realized a very long time ago that I cannot change it, only He can.
In the course of my life, I discovered that there's more to being a Christian than what this world has to offer.
There's another one coming.

But while I'm still here, I can and do pray that God's will be done, and that He put people in power that can and will make good decisions;
and I pray all the time for this world's leaders, that they may make those wise decisions and that we as believers may live our lives in peace and to do the work of the Lord quietly.

If you wish to participate in things that you think will make a difference, I'm not telling you not to.
You go ahead if that's what you think that the Lord would have you to do.



I wish you well, and I'll put you on "ignore" so I'm not tempted to answer any more of your posts, because it seems that I cannot do so honestly without making you angry.
It was never my intention to offend you, sir.
But I am an honest man, and I doubt that that will ever change.

What I hope will change, is me being more discreet and reading more of a thread before I "fire from the hip" with any replies.

Feel free to PM me if you ever wish to.
My door is always open to my brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ.


Good evening to you.

 

[AustinC]

He was after he circumcised himself... oy vey

Not so. Abraham was not of the line of Judah.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not so. Abraham was not of the line of Judah.

Then why do the Jews site Abraham as their father? Ben Abraham ( son of Abraham )

 

[AustinC]

Then why do the Jews site Abraham as their father? Ben Abraham ( son of Abraham )

Why not? He came before Judah, before Jacob and before Isaac. God made a covenant with Abram, not Judah.

 

[The Archangel]

The first of course is Cain. God cursed Cain. (Gen. 4:11). God set a physical mark upon Cain to distinguish him from all others. You will have two distinct families of man upon the earth now. Those of Cain, and those of Seth. Call it the race of Cain and Seth or the family of Cain or Seth, it is still division by God.

This, of course, is ludicrous. The line of Seth goes to Noah. Noah (and his sons) are the only survivors of the flood. The "line" of Cain didn't survive the flood. There cannot be a race of Cain and a race of Seth today. We are all decedents of Adam by way of Seth through Noah.

The Archangel

 

[rsr]

This discussion has veered off into the nonsense apologetics that Baptists once relied upon to justify black slavery. It is closed.