Is God the author of Evil/Sin?

[Sai]

According to your Calvinist teacher(s), whom I am currently reading about via this enlightening criticism of your doctrines, you all teach that God predestines people to sin. Thus, aka, God makes people sin.

You say God chooses people to be saved, so why would you not say that God chooses which person will sin?

Is that not what you believe?

In which case, doesn't that make God an Evil God who makes Evil happen in the world?

That takes out the responsibility of men for their own action and saying that GOD causes the sin/evil in this world.

So God caused the Holocaust. God caused 9/11. etc. etc.

That is what ya'lls teachers teach. From what I have read.

If you're wondering what book I'm reading it is this one:

Against Calvinism : Rescuing God's Reputation From Radical Reformed Theology
Author: Olson, Roger E.

So, in conclusion, if you believe that, that God makes man sin (as well as make man choose to believe upon His son), you are contradicting scripture that says God is Love, God is good and Holy.

Note, that when I say that you say that God makes people sin, I am not saying that when God punishes people that is evil, no, that is Justice, and God is an all JUST God as well as an ALL GOOD God.

Now let me hear your remarks and your defense of your very own belief and tell me how it makes sense and why you worship a God that (let's say), made that man kill your child or some other atrocious action and that that man did not commit that sin HIMSELF, by HIS OWN WILL, that God only KNEW about, but was able to use for His glory in his mysterious way, but at the same time, not FORCING that man to commit such a sin, but allowing it to happen for all things work for the good of those who Love God.

Please know I am not pointing out these horrid views of Calvinism to condemn or humiliate those who hold onto those views, but to rebuke and correct and give a defense of the hope that I have in Jesus, whom I chose on my free will to follow.

I thought they believe that God predestined the non elect to hell? Which is an error on their part.

 

[AustinC]

So OKAY I GET IT NOW. God granted you the ABILITY TO BE SAVED. Which is just another way of saying God picked you to be saved while not picking these other people, thus, not giving them the ability to have faith .

BASED ON WHAT DID GOD DECIDE TO GRANT YOU FAITH TO BELIEVE AND NOT CINDY LOU OVER HERE?

ANSWER THAT AND I'LL *THINK* about being converted to your RIDICULOUS view.

God only knows, but it wasn't my good looks, natural charm and sex appeal. In fact, there is absolutely nothing that I can point to that would explain the reason why God chose to redeem me. When you figure it out, would you kindly enlighten me? Maybe it's my lack of sarcasm that won God over? I got nothing.

 

[AustinC]

Yes the "T" of the TULIP says the fallen cannot choose holy volitions, thus we can only choose to sin. Frequently in seeking to defend the indefensible, you will find posters who deny the actual meaning of the T and claim it only means we do not have the ability to save ourselves. On and on they post denials, ad hominems and misrepresentations yet claim they are earnestly seeking truth. As some might say, we can judge the tree by its fruit. (Matthew 12:33)

Van, leaning hard on the crutch...

 

[Miss E]

Why would anyone stop you from stating what the Bible so richly declares.
All our righteousness is as filthy rags. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. All we, like sheep, have gone astray.
You have stated a glorious truth, MissE. God chose us based upon nothing we had done to earn his favor. That, my friend, is Amazing Grace. How sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.

O MY GOODNESS. You are SUPER blind my friend. You just confessed to believing in a God that picks based on NOTHING we DO, no Faith, no Belief, only that He, as the Divine and All-Powerful all-loving, all-holy God, chooses to save some and damn others. Con graduations, you have made us into mindless machines. -claps-

No one in their right mind would worship a God that picks based on nothing. I was picked to be saved based on my FAITH. Not because God just felt like one day out of the blue to save me. That isnt' grace, that is selfishness. That is a horrible and selfish king.

My King gave me a choice whether I would love Him or not, and THAT is how His grace is shown by his OFFER, not his DICTATING some to believe and others not to.

 

[Miss E]

Van, leaning hard on the crutch...

Count me disabled and needing TWO crutches because Van is correct and all I hear from you and the others is self-righteous blabber.

 

[atpollard]

God gives each man the opportunity to believe upon His son to be saved. That is in the bible constantly told to us.

Moctezuma I (c. 1398-1469) was the first Aztec Emperor and died before the first European arrived in the Americas. How did God give Moctezuma I “the opportunity to believe upon His son to be saved” when he died before he ever had a chance to hear the Gospel?

Your assumptions are flawed.

 

[AustinC]

How many times must I go over this pure and simple logic?

God offers His son (grace) which if we recieve His grace and believe upon His son, we are granted salvation. HOW is that taking away God's grace? We all deserve hell! But God's grace via His son gives us a way out. We either accept it or reject it.

God still has all the glory in power in the saving. Why do you think that makes us like God to WILLINGLY serve Him or NOT?

Do you want us to be like robots without a will? Because that's what you sound like you want.

Pay for the pizza and you can have it. Aren't I so gracious!? That will be $21.95 with tax...

 

[Miss E]

Moctezuma I (c. 1398-1469) was the first Aztec Emperor and died before the first European arrived in the Americas. How did God give Moctezuma I “the opportunity to believe upon His son to be saved” when he died before he ever had a chance to hear the Gospel?

Your assumptions are flawed.

You divert the point with an answer of folly. God still gave him the opportunity to seek after God. but he chose to follow himself.

 

[Van]

Van, leaning hard on the crutch...

Gee I though the use of ad hominems was a crutch. And according to some, leaning on the truth is not a crutch.

Yes the "T" of the TULIP says the fallen cannot choose holy volitions, thus we can only choose to sin. Frequently in seeking to defend the indefensible, you will find posters who deny the actual meaning of the T and claim it only means we do not have the ability to save ourselves. On and on they post denials, ad hominems and misrepresentations yet claim they are earnestly seeking truth. As some might say, we can judge the tree by its fruit. (Matthew 12:33)

 

[Miss E]

Pay for the pizza and you can have it. Aren't I so gracious!? That will be $21.95 with tax...

Your comparison with God's GRACE in offering His son for remission of our sins to every man/woman who believes with a pizza order is ATROCIOUS.

God did choose the foolish things in the world to shame the wise. And some might say God offering an opportunity for people to be saved via His son is foolish- that Him giving man the OPPORTUNITY TO BE SAVED BY HAVING FAITH IN HIS SON is foolish. Do you think that's foolish? If so, well, I hope you're ready to be shamed.

 

[atpollard]

I'm not denying that by their fruit you won't know them. But even then if those people aren't constantly showing those fruits, you can just put them in with the other self-righteous people in the world who pretend to do good when in fact they are wicked underneath.

I judge no one except myself, because that is the only heart that I know. The question was how can someone know THEY are one of the Elect. It is about examining your own fruit to decide the status of your own heart.

[Romans 14:4 NASB] 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

 

[37818]

. . . saved, so why would you not say that God chooses which person will sin?

Moronic. Romans 3:23. 1 John 1:10.

 

[atpollard]

Obviously. It is due to God's love that people choose to love God back. When they realize they are not deserving of love and see themselves as sinners and repent and turn to Christ DUE TO HIS LOVE FOR US.

You mean that God’s LOVE for those He foreknew and predestined and called and glorified DRAWS the ELECT to Christ and cause them to love Him? That sounds just like the Reformed Doctrines of Grace.

 

[Miss E]

I judge no one except myself, because that is the only heart that I know. The question was how can someone know THEY are one of the Elect. It is about examining your own fruit to decide the status of your own heart.

[Romans 14:4 NASB] 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

ONLY GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART, Thus, only God knows you're saved. I don't even know if I'm saved or not because only God knows our hearts. You can't know your heart as the scripture says:

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? (Jeremiah 17:9)

We have to have FAITH to be saved. Plain as that. I won't know for sure if I'm saved til I face God myself and He tells me whether I have been a good and faithful servant or that He never knew me.

 

[Miss E]

You mean that God’s LOVE for those He foreknew and predestined and called and glorified DRAWS the ELECT to Christ and cause them to love Him? That sounds just like the Reformed Doctrines of Grace.

I believe the words 'predestined' never came out of my post/mouth brother pollard.

Nice try though.

 

[JD731]

[Gal 5:16-24 NASB] 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

self-inspection of Fruit.
Whichever group describes your heart, points to your destiny.

If I am understanding your answer, you know you are elect because of your work? Yes, I can see how that would be the only possible way you would know it. I have suspected that would be the only logical honest answer.

Thank you for that.

 

[atpollard]

BASED ON WHAT DID GOD DECIDE TO GRANT YOU FAITH TO BELIEVE AND NOT CINDY LOU OVER HERE?

Nobody knows why (except God), but scripture gives hints as to NOT WHY. Not because we were better than Cindy Lou. Not because we deserved it more. The decision was not based on any merit in us ... we were not smarter, luckier, less evil, more deserving. The reason has SOMETHING to do with God. We were saved because God chose us.

 

[atpollard]

I believe the words 'predestined' never came out of my post/mouth brother pollard.

Nice try though.

No, they came out of God’s mouth. I apologize for trying to put God’s words in your mouth; I am sure that is something that almost never happens.

 

[atpollard]

I thought they believe that God predestined the non elect to hell? Which is an error on their part.

God “passed over” the reprobate and allowed then to follow their natural evil inclinations ... like what the end of Romans Chapter 1 describes.

 

[AustinC]

O MY GOODNESS. You are SUPER blind my friend. You just confessed to believing in a God that picks based on NOTHING we DO, no Faith, no Belief, only that He, as the Divine and All-Powerful all-loving, all-holy God, chooses to save some and damn others. Con graduations, you have made us into mindless machines. -claps-

No one in their right mind would worship a God that picks based on nothing. I was picked to be saved based on my FAITH. Not because God just felt like one day out of the blue to save me. That isnt' grace, that is selfishness. That is a horrible and selfish king.

My King gave me a choice whether I would love Him or not, and THAT is how His grace is shown by his OFFER, not his DICTATING some to believe and others not to.

Well...I guess you picked the wrong God. The do something for me and I'll do something for you gods are all down the hall and to the left.
The God who chooses according to His own purpose is here in the Bible and whether I like it or not, He chose this wretched bum as his child. Nothing I can do now. How sad it is for me that I am made a child of the King of Kings and given all the blessings of being family. If only I had been able to choose, I'm sure I could have done a much better job. Plus, I could have shown off my narly nunchuck moves. That, surely, would have won me some points.