Is Harry Potter and Narnia good for the church?

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by tinytim:
Here's the problem with HP, spells and wizards ARE real. They are controlled by Satan. If we start teaching them that witchcraft is just fantasy, we are wrong. We need to teach them that, yes, there is a dark side and that all witchcraft is evil. I know some and was around wiccans when I was in college.
(I even had a wiccan cast a spell on me that I would be ugly by the time I was 35!! you be the judge!!!)

Satan would just love for us as Christians to teach our children that evil is just a figment of our imagination.
Witchcraft is evil. REAL evil!!!

I would agree that it would be a big problem with our parenting if we taught our children that witchcraft and the occult were just fantasy that they didn't have to be concerned about.

However, that isn't a problem with Harry Potter which is just fantasy. That is a problem with our parenting.

 

[dcorbett]

you know something? The real witches of today laugh at Harry Potter. They consider it all fantasy and fun too. Real sorcery is totally different than Harry Potter. I have read the first 3 books, and it is simply silliness, fantasy, and made up stuff.

Harry Potter books do not contain any REAL witchcraft. No more than The Wizard of Oz.

 

[LorrieAB]

Obviously spells and wizards ARE real (AND of Satan) or God would not have mentioned them in His Word.

Lev 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Act 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

I agree with this also. Though, I see it as fiction just as I do most movies. I find it entertaining but I would be cautious when introducing it to young Christians. I don't know, it's something I have mixed feelings about.

Please don't have "mixed feelings about it".

Jam 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

 

[APuritanMindset]

Does anybody find it ironic that parents tell their kids that it is fiction, the kids are mature enough to understand it is fiction, and then it is those same parents who are out to refute the books because it uses witchcraft and sorcery? I think it's the parents that aren't mature enough for these books.

"I assure you," He [that's Jesus] said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3 HCSB)

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by APuritanMindset:
Does anybody find it ironic that parents tell their kids that it is fiction, the kids are mature enough to understand it is fiction, and then it is those same parents who are out to refute the books because it uses witchcraft and sorcery? I think it's the parents that aren't mature enough for these books.

Amen, preach it!!!

I grew up on the Wizard of Oz, and read all the books. I turned out just fine. Many of us loved Oz, and to date, there have been no cases of any of us melting.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

If it's not acceptable reading for your children, don't let them read it. As for mine, I'll do my best to give them an understanding of Biblical right and wrong, and help them understand how things they encounter in daily life (and yes, even things they read) fall into the Christian worldview. I grew up on fantasy, and I don't believe it's hurt me. I understand some of these things have basis in real world fact, but I have no more fear for Voldemort or the White Witch than I do for Satan and his minions. The biggest difference I can see between LOTR, CON and HP are that the Lewis and Tolkien books use magic as elements to tell the story, HP uses magic as the story.

In His Grip,
joshua

 

[TexasSky]

I am curious, do those of you who object to Harry Potter on the basis of the magic references also object to things like "Cinderella," "Pinnochio," "Snow White," "The Wizard of Oz," and "Peter Pan?"

If not, why not?
Cinderella has a good fairy.
Pinnochio has the blue fairy.
Snow White has the wicked witch.
The Wizard of Oz has witches and wizards.
Peter Pan has Tinkerbell.

(But to the original op. I don't see how HP helps the church.)

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
I am curious, do those of you who object to Harry Potter on the basis of the magic references also object to things like "Cinderella," "Pinnochio," "Snow White," "The Wizard of Oz," and "Peter Pan?"

If not, why not?
Cinderella has a good fairy.
Pinnochio has the blue fairy.
Snow White has the wicked witch.
The Wizard of Oz has witches and wizards.
Peter Pan has Tinkerbell.

(But to the original op. I don't see how HP helps the church.)

The only objection I have is the "raze" and "hoop-la" of taking these Potter and Narnia stuff and "studying" the applications as part of a Sunday School or Discipleship Training series----what shallow and shoddy desires by weakling lazy Baptists who plop themselves down to "decipher" the hidden meanings of said applications using their Holy Bibles---a total waste of precious time that will not advance the Kingdom of God one iota!!!

You can watch those movies all you want---Narnia, Potter, Snow White, Cinderella, etc, etc---but don't come to church asking the preacher

"Can we talk about these hidden meanings in DT class!??"

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
I am curious, do those of you who object to Harry Potter on the basis of the magic references also object to things like "Cinderella," "Pinnochio," "Snow White," "The Wizard of Oz," and "Peter Pan?"

If not, why not?
Cinderella has a good fairy.
Pinnochio has the blue fairy.
Snow White has the wicked witch.
The Wizard of Oz has witches and wizards.
Peter Pan has Tinkerbell.

(But to the original op. I don't see how HP helps the church.)

I don't object to Harry Potter on the basis of references to magic. I object on the basis of the legitimization of the occult. Have you ever met a real, live fairy? No? Didn't think so. However, there are real live witches with a philosophy that is diametrically opposed to Scripture.

Also, remember that the witches in the fairy tales you mentioned were evil. I have no problem with a story making witches the bad guys.

Even when I was a teenager in the '60's I had doubts about the TV show "Bewitched," which my sister always watched. It showed a happy, sweet witch. Oh, and by the way, she was also very powerful with a ridiculous and ineffective husband. I understand that the feminists really loved "Bewitched."

 

[LadyEagle]

Wonder what God thinks about it...

"There shall not be found among you anyone who ...practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you."


Deut. 18:10-14

Gal. 5:[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Johnv]

Okay, so, that doesn't answer the question, LE. Do you object to "Cinderella," "Pinnochio," "Snow White," "The Wizard of Oz," and "Peter Pan?"

I myself grew up on the Oz books. Narry an objection from the church back then. The objections seems to be recent, and only as a result of the popularity of the Harry Potter series. IOW, the objection appears to be inconsistently selective, thus damaging the legitimacy of attempting to make a Christian witness on the topic.

OTOH, if you objection is against all of the above, including the Narnia and LOTR series, then you have a valid leg to stand on. (The Narnia series contains material that can be construed as New Age teachings, plus the fact that it condones winebibbing by underaged persons).

 

[Eric Rolen]

Isnt the same producer and directors that make these films are the same producers and directors who make the vile and perverse films that are in major theatres across this globe? these movies are not made with a christian motive in mind while the book authors may have had that idea, these film makers do not. It is the mighty dollar that drives these films. look at "The Passion" for instance with mel gibson. Look at his background. My personal opinion is that violence sells but that is my opinion. God Bless

 

[Hope of Glory]

Harry potter...bad. (based on sorcery)

The plot, of course is the usual generic good vs. evil theme.

That's a bit simplistic. HP also promotes moral ambiguity, moral relevance, spell-casting, charms... It's OK to cheat as long as you're the "good" and you're fighint the "evil". Last I checked, Jesus didn't cheat to win. The list goes on and on.

Also, as someone else mentioned, it lends legitimacy to the occult.

One big difference between the HP books and the others is that the spell-casting, etc. are specifically forbidden. The others (if memory serves; it's been years) simply have items that have certain properties. (That's an over-simplification, but I don't feel like typing several pages.)

So, it's just fiction, eh? That makes it OK? How about fiction about pedophilia or bestiality? Are those OK? How about fictitious snuff flicks?

 

[John of Japan]

Hear, hear, Hope of Glory.

Hudson Taylor banned all fiction on the first ship of missionaries he took to China after founding the Baptist World Mission. We don't want to do that, I'm sure. The parables of Jesus are a kind of fiction.

However, saying that fiction=good literature is dangerous. Like the old saying goes, "He who stands for nothing will fall for anything." I enjoy SF, but I'm not going to read the fiction of L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology! The biblical term is "discernment."

"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." (Heb 5:14 )

"And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean." (Eze 44:23)

 

[cojosh]

I do believe that HP is a tool of Satan to introduce the occult to children. It is fantasy but it is also dangerous. It is set on planet earth in a school. Children start thinking "I wish I went to that school". There is the possibility that the fans of the series may go on to dabble in the occult, because it is all fun and games. It seems fun at the time but isn't that what Satan does best. He is able to make sin seem fun for a season! LOTR, CON, and others that have been mentioned are also fantasies, but are set in lands that do not exist. This keeps it separated from reality. HP is nothing more than witchcraft placed on a child's level to tempt them to get involved.

 

[fatbacker]

"While I don't see Harry Potter as being good for the church, I do see it and other fantasy books as good for the development of the imagination, creativity and reading abilities of individual Christian children. I read some of the Harry Potter books as an adult but many other fantasy novels as a youth and they were pivotal in the development of my reading abilities and imagination. Some of the Harry Potter themes may be a little scary for really young children and the elements of learning wizardry/sorcery may encourage some children without proper guidance to seek out the occult. But I would consider those to be non-issues with proper parenting. Generally, the Potter books are very good writing that I would highly recommend, with the above cautions."


I am not going to write the name of who posted this but what kind of parent who knows the bible says that sorcery, witchcraft, soothsaying and other forms of divination are an abomination to God and will then go buy a book for sheer entertainment books that not only contain these things but is the whole focus of the book. How in the world can you highly recommend certain books and then us the words with caution in the same sentence, that is total contradiction of meaning. That is like letting your child drink and do drugs as long as it is in moderation. Wow, crack cocaine in moderation now there is a stretch. You might think I am being absurd using a mind altering drug as an example but using the words of the poster of the above paragraph said it is used for childrens development in reading so my analogy is right on key.

I guess it is okay to show your children that you can defeat evil with witchcraft and sorcery after the bible says that any type of divination is evil.

For those of you who cannot seem to grasp the concept of either it is all good or all evil I feel bad for you. Teaching your children at a young age that you can read things that are anti God are completely denying them the opportunity to understand what complete obedience to Christ means,you are teaching them to pick and chose what they will obey because it is entertaining and even harmless to read things God has CLEARLY stated are an abonitaion and evil in His eyes. When teachers spend time in sunday school class teaching your children about biblical principals and then promise them a Harry Potter movie if they are good then woe to you.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by fatbacker:
"While I don't see Harry Potter as being good for the church, I do see it and other fantasy books as good for the development of the imagination, creativity and reading abilities of individual Christian children. I read some of the Harry Potter books as an adult but many other fantasy novels as a youth and they were pivotal in the development of my reading abilities and imagination. Some of the Harry Potter themes may be a little scary for really young children and the elements of learning wizardry/sorcery may encourage some children without proper guidance to seek out the occult. But I would consider those to be non-issues with proper parenting. Generally, the Potter books are very good writing that I would highly recommend, with the above cautions."


I am not going to write the name of who posted this

If you don't want to give me credit for my words which I stand behind 100%, then I will take credit for them.

Originally posted by fatbacker:
but what kind of parent who knows the bible says that sorcery, witchcraft, soothsaying and other forms of divination are an abomination to God and will then go buy a book for sheer entertainment books that not only contain these things but is the whole focus of the book.

I would not buy such a book an never recommended such a book. If you got that from my post, I can only assume you either misread my post or haven't read Harry Potter or both.

Originally posted by fatbacker:
How in the world can you highly recommend certain books and then us the words with caution in the same sentence, that is total contradiction of meaning.

Not at all. The cautions are that I recommend HP for certain children, those who are old enough to handle the scary imagery and those who have parents that are willing to fulfill their responsiblity to parent their children by teaching that HP is good fantasy fiction but sorcery, witchcraft and the occult are very real and dangerous to be avoided. Of course HP is none of those things and does not contain real versions of any of them.

Originally posted by fatbacker:
That is like letting your child drink and do drugs as long as it is in moderation. Wow, crack cocaine in moderation now there is a stretch. You might think I am being absurd using a mind altering drug as an example but using the words of the poster of the above paragraph said it is used for childrens development in reading so my analogy is right on key.

That is a horrible analogy. A better analogy would be letting children read books where some characters may drink or use drugs. Some of those characters may be protagonists who may or may not consider those things as bad.

Good parents should recognize that eventually, they will not be able to moderate everything that their child reads. So instead of trying to ban or shelter everything bad from a child, it is better parenting to actually prepare them to be able to handle with Godly wisdom, the things that they read about.

Harry Potter, while having no connection to actual witchcraft or the occult, may encourage some poorly parented children to pursue these things. I believe reading HP presents a good parenting opportunity for parents to teach about the very real dangers of witchcraft and the occult so that children will be prepared when they face those choices in real situations like when their friends invite them to experiment with them.

Originally posted by fatbacker:
I guess it is okay to show your children that you can defeat evil with witchcraft and sorcery after the bible says that any type of divination is evil.

Reading about diviniation is not the same as divination and actually presents a parenting opportunity to teach about the real dangers of divination and what the bible has to say about it.

Originally posted by fatbacker:
Teaching your children at a young age that you can read things that are anti God

What is anti-God about HP? Sorcery, wizardry, witchcraft? I guess you are on the Tolkien and Narnia are anti-God bandwagon too.

Originally posted by fatbacker:
are completely denying them the opportunity to understand what complete obedience to Christ means,

Encouraging the reading of HP is not denying any opportunites to obey Christ. I encourage parents to parent and use their child's interest in books like HP to teach about what obedience to Christ means.

Originally posted by fatbacker:
you are teaching them to pick and chose what they will obey because it is entertaining and even harmless to read things God has CLEARLY stated are an abonitaion and evil in His eyes.

I missed the verse that says reading fantasy novels about fantasy witchcraft is an abomination and evil in his eyes.

Originally posted by fatbacker:
When teachers spend time in sunday school class teaching your children about biblical principals and then promise them a Harry Potter movie if they are good then woe to you.

I would not recommend using HP paraphernalia as Sunday School rewards. There are many better rewards to consider.

 

[fatbacker]

So I guess if you liberals who think Harry Potter is wholesome reading is that if you can entertain yourself with stories of fantasy involving witchcraft and sourcery (which we know God detests) then it is equally okay to read fantasy stories of people having sex outside of marriage and maybe even group sex, I mean with the fact that it is only a story and it is not really practicing it then it certainly can have some great educational reading as long as it is well writin. It could help to develop a childs mind.

I am sure most of you would say that the situation is totally different, but, what is the difference between letting your child indulge in fantasy that involves withcraft and fantasy that involves all different kinds of sexual fantasies outside of marriage? We know God detests witchcraft as much as sexual immorality and neither one is somehow more innocent than the other.

The only difference I can see is that you enjoy stories like that and have to call it good because you are entertained by it.

quoted by Gold D "Reading about diviniation is not the same as divination and actually presents a parenting opportunity to teach about the real dangers of divination and what the bible has to say about it." Again we could let our children read fantasy sex stories and then educate them on the real dangers of premarital sex and homosexual acts after all reading about wild sex stories and doing it is not the same.

Gold you have never once mentioned HP as a learning tool as to what God's will is but have only used it as a source of entertainment. If you want to use it as a learning tool then it must be good enough to bring a HP book into Sunday school class and let them read it there. If it is not good enough for sunday school then it is not good enough for the home.

Gold why would you not recommend HP stuff as a reward, if it is good enough to read then it is good enough to be rewarded with, you said yourself that you highly recommend it?

Anti God in the context which we are speaking is anything that uses the things God hates and turns them into a source of good to destroy what is already evil and is done so with the intent to make witchcraft and sourcery seem less evil and is aimed directly at the eyes and ears of children. The bible clearly states that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand and we know that HP uses evil to try and destroy evil.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Eric Rolen:
Isnt the same producer and directors that make these films are the same producers and directors who make the vile and perverse films that are in major theatres across this globe?

That's a bit nebulous. Can you be a bit more specific?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by fatbacker:
So I guess if you liberals who think Harry Potter is wholesome reading...

It's quite hypocritical to say that, unless you also denounce the Oz books and the Lord of the Rings series (sorcery and wizardry), and the Narnia books (New Age beliefs, gluttony, and drunkenness).

I submit that it is the conservative who is able to use discernment, while the liberal view is a lack of discernment and tossing out the whole.