Robert Snow
New Member
Please understand that the Primitive Baptist are a breed unto themselves. Some of the things they believe are very unusual to the average Baptist.
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Is Hyper Calvinism Regarded As being Non Biblical, As A False Gospel?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Please understand that the Primitive Baptist are a breed unto themselves. Some of the things they believe are very unusual to the average Baptist.
Again, show me that from the Bible. Show how being saved [sozo, read deliverance] and the birth from above are synonymous.
Go reread. BEFORE one can enter, or even see, this kingdom, He must be born from above.
It is a huge error to confuse the birth of the Spirit with the gift of the Spirit. NOT the same.
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freeatlast
New Member
I'll rephrase:
It is a huge error to confuse the birth of the Spirit with the gifts of the Spirit. NOT the same.
Wow, so now I will change my entire life & 6 generations of Calvinists ancestry because of your pronouncements! Gee thanks.
freeatlast
New Member
I totally agree.
Amazing isn't it. From the ones that our conventional human natures label as peculator, we can learn from. Praise God!
A few examples of the gift(s) of the Spirit:
And behold, I send forth the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city, until ye be clothed with power from on high. Lu 24:49
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. Jn 16
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4
And the disciples were filled with joy with the Holy Spirit. Acts 13:52
for the kingdom of God is....righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Ro 14:17
The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ....... Ro 8:16,17
......in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance...... Eph 1:13,14
A few examples of the birth of the Spirit [the birth from above]:
.....It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit. Jn 3:7,8 YLT
(when Christ made this statement, He was not implementing something new, He was revealing a mystery from of old, something that had always been)
But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4:26
3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah
4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.
5 Yea, of Zion it shall be said, This one and that one was born in her; And the Most High himself will establish her.
6 Jehovah will count, when he writeth up the peoples, This one was born there. Ps 87
(more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband Isa 54:1/Gal 4:27)
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4:28,29
(by the time of his weaning Isaac had been born of the Spirit)
for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts.....Ro 2:13,14,15
After reading through this thread, all I can say is, WOW! I guess the NUTS aren't all on the trees after all.
Opinions, Opinions are like you know whats, you know whats:laugh::smilewinkgrin::tongue3:
Anyone who sincerely feels their need for Him has been born of the Spirit. I like the lead-in to Jn 3:16 (one of the most abused passages in the Bible) to illustrate this:
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. Jn 3:14,15
And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. Nu 21:8
Take note, the brazen serpent was lifted up for those that were bitten. Those who were not bitten had no need for that brazen serpent.
.........They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Mk 2:17
It is the Spirit working within His children that causes them to feel their need for Him.
Regeneration BEFORE conversion. That is the consistent example given in scripture.
Born again/rebirth happens wheen Holy spirit regenerates someone, that if receiving Gift of Holy Spirit..
After that, comes gifts of Holy Spirit
OK.
Wrong. It is NOT dependent upon one's 'acceptance' of it. The only 'acceptance' to be found in the scriptures is God's acceptance of us:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Eph 1:5,6
Again, take note of the order given in the scriptures [which is ALWAYS regeneration BEFORE conversion]:
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1:13,14
Take note of this THREEFOLD DENIAL from the scriptures of any human involvement. Those that did receive Him had already been born, not of blood (not because they belonged to any superior race, like the Jews considered themselves to be), nor of of the will of the flesh (not because the individual chose to or accepted it), nor of the will of man (not because someone persuaded or compelled them), but of God. The child of God is 100% totally passive in the spiritual birth.
IF they continue in obedience to the gospel.
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The HolY Spirit gives to EACH person who has Jesus as their Saviour a "gift" of Holy Spirit, regardless to how obedient they are...
God grants the gift, up to us to allow for Him to be glorified thru our use of it...
freeatlast
New Member
Now I totally disagree. You keep switching gears.
You're real short on scripture to back up your statements, aren't you? Kinda surprises me, considering all the threads you start and all....
I guarantee you, disobedient Christians have no joy or peace or righteousness in the Holy Spirit:
......to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him: if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, Col 1:22,23
Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God`s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Ro 11:22
Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand, by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain. 1 Cor 15:1,2
but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end...... for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end: Heb 3:6,14
I've switched nothing.
Robert Snow
New Member
I didn't say anything derogatory toward Primitive Baptist; I just stated the obvious. They are somewhat different from the average Southern Baptist church, which is the predominate Baptist congregation.
Brother Jeremy Slone
New Member
From my understanding the Coined "hyper calvinist" was by other calvinists. The split or difference was between "direct regeneration" and "gospel regeneration" A Particular Baptist by the name of Andrew Fuller who held to gospel regeneration made the remarks as I understand it about other Particular baptists that held to Direct Regeneration.
To break it down as some refer to it as external and internal call. Some believe the gospel is an external call, as I agree. But believe it is coupled with the internal call as I disagree. Not that God can't quicken a dead alien sinner during the external call (preaching) if it so pleased God but it would not be through the gospel directly.
Direct (internal)= Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling,
Not gospel = not according to our works,
Not Direct but why he does the Direct = but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Legally accomplished = But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who abolished death,
external call = and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
The Gospel did not bring life and immortality but brought it to light, to those God had already regenerated, To those it was brought to light through the gospel. (1Cor. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God)It made manifested what God had already done. That is how we are saved by the knowledge of him. For instance the knowledge of Christ doesn't save us for heaven but it brings Salvation to those that are aready purposed, then regenerated in Christ, then to be brought unto salvation by the gospel which is the joy and peace that sets us free from our fears and so on. 1 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
I don't Champion John Calvin but I have no problems with TULIP, probably be called a calvinist and what ever else. But I am a pacifist and believe God puts in rulers according to his own judgement and thank him no matter what for my liberty in Christ Jesus. I beleive in immersion and therefore am not a calvinist whether Hyper or mellow. But this is to my understanding.....
To break it down as some refer to it as external and internal call. Some believe the gospel is an external call, as I agree. But believe it is coupled with the internal call as I disagree. Not that God can't quicken a dead alien sinner during the external call (preaching) if it so pleased God but it would not be through the gospel directly.
Direct (internal)= Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling,
Not gospel = not according to our works,
Not Direct but why he does the Direct = but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Legally accomplished = But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who abolished death,
external call = and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
The Gospel did not bring life and immortality but brought it to light, to those God had already regenerated, To those it was brought to light through the gospel. (1Cor. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God)It made manifested what God had already done. That is how we are saved by the knowledge of him. For instance the knowledge of Christ doesn't save us for heaven but it brings Salvation to those that are aready purposed, then regenerated in Christ, then to be brought unto salvation by the gospel which is the joy and peace that sets us free from our fears and so on. 1 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
I don't Champion John Calvin but I have no problems with TULIP, probably be called a calvinist and what ever else. But I am a pacifist and believe God puts in rulers according to his own judgement and thank him no matter what for my liberty in Christ Jesus. I beleive in immersion and therefore am not a calvinist whether Hyper or mellow. But this is to my understanding.....
Sorry if i was being snide Robert. I find PB's on average to be studied & allot of them have moved away from conventional churches to where they are now....probably after much contemplation.