Is ISIS/ISIL Associated with Islam?

[righteousdude2]

I've listened to the prez, and others trying to skip and dance around this issue, and in a way I agree with those who say ISIL/ISIS is not Islam. I know some of you are surprised that I agree with Obama? But it happens once in a while, like the blood moon earlier this week!

Any ways, I look at it this way: ISIL/ISIS is no more a branch of Islam . . . then the Westboro Baptist, Church is a representative of any Baptist church [regardless of doctrinal stance]. Sure ISIS/ISIL may carry the name Islam within their title, but they do not represent the average Muslim anymore than those radicals at Westboro reflect or speak for born-again Baptists!

I believe it is an in-name-only association, and to associate these terrorists, or any terrorist organization with Islam, is to open the door for religious prejudice and persecution should full war ever broke out?

STILL, I'd appreciate your views on this opinion? Thanks!!! :type:

 

[Revmitchell]

but they do not represent the average Muslim anymore than those radicals at Westboro reflect or speak for born-again Baptists!

Tell that to all the Muslims around the world that partied in the streets on 911. Tell that to all the Muslims living adjacent to Israel. Sorrry but your statement does not stand up in the light of reality.

 

[righteousdude2]

Tell that to all the Muslims around the world that partied in the streets on 911. Tell that to all the Muslims living adjacent to Israel. Sorrry but your statement does not stand up in the light of reality.

Maybe I should say that my thoughts were directed towards Americans that follow Islam. I agree that Muslims around the world are more radicalized than the Muslims who consider this country their home.

 

[Revmitchell]

Maybe I should say that my thoughts were directed towards Americans that follow Islam. I agree that Muslims around the world are more radicalized than the Muslims who consider this country their home.

Oh then visit the Mosques in the US and listent to what is being taught.

 

[RLBosley]

I've listened to the prez, and others trying to skip and dance around this issue, and in a way I agree with those who say ISIL/ISIS is not Islam. I know some of you are surprised that I agree with Obama? But it happens once in a while, like the blood moon earlier this week!

Any ways, I look at it this way: ISIL/ISIS is no more a branch of Islam . . . then the Westboro Baptist, Church is a representative of any Baptist church [regardless of doctrinal stance]. Sure ISIS/ISIL may carry the name Islam within their title, but they do not represent the average Muslim anymore than those radicals at Westboro reflect or speak for born-again Baptists!

I believe it is an in-name-only association, and to associate these terrorists, or any terrorist organization with Islam, is to open the door for religious prejudice and persecution should full war ever broke out?

STILL, I'd appreciate your views on this opinion? Thanks!!! :type:

You are exactly right.

ISIS has been rejected as Islamic by many Muslims, especially the "scholars." Just a couple weeks ago, IIRC, a group of Muslim theologians published a lengthy paper criticizing the theology of ISIS as non-Islamic.

 

[Use of Time]

I've listened to the prez, and others trying to skip and dance around this issue, and in a way I agree with those who say ISIL/ISIS is not Islam. I know some of you are surprised that I agree with Obama? But it happens once in a while, like the blood moon earlier this week!

Any ways, I look at it this way: ISIL/ISIS is no more a branch of Islam . . . then the Westboro Baptist, Church is a representative of any Baptist church [regardless of doctrinal stance]. Sure ISIS/ISIL may carry the name Islam within their title, but they do not represent the average Muslim anymore than those radicals at Westboro reflect or speak for born-again Baptists!

I believe it is an in-name-only association, and to associate these terrorists, or any terrorist organization with Islam, is to open the door for religious prejudice and persecution should full war ever broke out?

STILL, I'd appreciate your views on this opinion? Thanks!!! :type:

You are exactly correct RD2. The squeaky wheel gets the oil so to speak so the media time is going to go to the radicals. My experience is that most muslims have a hatred for terrorism that outshines ours. They are sick of having to live in the middle of it and sick of being lumped in with the crazies which RevMitch has a passion for doing.

 

[faithcontender]

Mohammed ordered his followers to kill the infidels specifically the Jews and the Christians. He even ordered the massacre of Banu Qurayza and other many tribes.

All male members of the tribe who had reached puberty were beheaded.The rest of the woman and children were sold in exchange for weapons and horses, according to Islamic sources. According to Ibn Kathir, Quranic verses 33:26-27 and 33:9-10 are about the attack against the Banu Qurayza.

And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.[Quran 33:26]

Then the Messenger of Allah commanded that ditches should be dug, so they were dug in the earth, and they were brought tied by their shoulders, and were beheaded. There were between seven hundred and eight hundred of them. The children who had not yet reached adolescence and the women were taken prisoner, and their wealth was seized.
[Ibn Kathir, on Quran 33:26]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

LIST OF EXPEDITIONS OF MOHAMMED

Do these mean Mohammed is not Islamic?

 

[RLBosley]

No one here is arguing that Islam is inherently peaceful, as we are so often told in the media. Simply making the observation that ISIS is not genuinely representing Islam as even Islamic theologians and scholars recognize.

 

[faithcontender]

Of course some liberal Islamic scholars will try to deny them as Islamic to try to portray that Moderate Islam is a religion of peace but what ISIS are doing are just in harmony with the examples of which Mohammed did. In this case, this is the orthodox or fundamental Islamic practice.

 

[RLBosley]

I see. So you know for a fact that all the Muslim apologists, scholars, and theologians who have criticized ISIS are "liberal"?

 

[Don]

I see. So you know for a fact that all the Muslim apologists, scholars, and theologians who have criticized ISIS are "liberal"?

In comparison to Mohammed himself--quite liberal.

As to the "evolution" of islam as a religion, well....

 

[faithcontender]

In comparison to Mohammed himself--quite liberal.

.....

Exactly! You just took the words out of my mouth.

Even the Islamic radical terrorists like Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, ISIS and other Muslim fundamentalists would not consider those liberal scholars "true muslims" based on the practice and examples of Mohammed.

 

[RLBosley]

In comparison to Mohammed himself--quite liberal.

As to the "evolution" of islam as a religion, well....

That's probably true.

What I have a problem with is the knee jerk reaction of some against those saying that ISIS isn't Islamic. In their mind Islam is this monolithic torture and war driven religion where every follower hates peace, justice, and the American way, and are totally unwilling to even concede that there are many (most?) Muslims, scholars even, who reject their (ISIS) way of thinking.

 

[faithcontender]

That's probably true.

What I have a problem with is the knee jerk reaction of some against those saying that ISIS isn't Islamic. In their mind Islam is this monolithic torture and war driven religion where every follower hates peace, justice, and the American way, and are totally unwilling to even concede that there are many (most?) Muslims, scholars even, who reject their (ISIS) way of thinking.

Indeed I will agree with you that there are many peaceful, kind, educated and liberal muslims. But to tell that ISIS is not true Islamic? I have problem with that.

But I can agree with you that ISIS faith and practices are not considered "liberal and modern Islamic' as practice by majority of muslims today. But most of the muslims today are just cultural muslims or muslim in name only which do not practice closely the teaching and examples of Mohammed.

But since these liberal muslims can be easily radicalize if they realize that they are not following exactly the practice and examples of Mohammed. In this way, they are future or potential terrorists.

 

[RLBosley]

Indeed I will agree with you that there are many peaceful, kind, educated and liberal muslims. But to tell that ISIS is not true Islamic? I have problem with that.

Understood. But that goes both ways. We wouldn't want to be associated with Westboro, yet people will quickly point out they call themselves Baptists. You and I both know they are not genuine representatives of our faith and would hope that people would understand the difference. I'm simply trying to concede to others what I want from them. Am I making sense?

But I can agree with you that ISIS faith and practices are not considered "liberal and modern Islamic' as practice by majority of muslims today. But most of the muslims today are just cultural muslims or muslim in name only which do not practice closely the teaching and examples of Mohammed.

That's true. But it also isn't only cultural muslims who are denouncing ISIS. In fact I would say most of those fighting for ISIS are culturally Islamic.

But since these liberal muslims can be easily radicalize if they realize that they are not following exactly the practice and examples of Mohammed. In this way, they are future or potential terrorists.

I'm sorry but that's too much of a stretch IMO. To me that's like saying all Jews could become warlords based on the example of Joshua and the judges.

 

[faithcontender]

Understood. But that goes both ways. We wouldn't want to be associated with Westboro, yet people will quickly point out they call themselves Baptists. You and I both know they are not genuine representatives of our faith and would hope that people would understand the difference. I'm simply trying to concede to others what I want from them. Am I making sense?

Your analogy is faulty!

Westboro are not representative of true baptists for the reason that they are not following the teaching and practice of the original christians as exemplified by the Lord Jesus Christ.

On the other hand, ISIS is the representative of true muslims for the reason that they are following the teaching and practice of the earliest and original muslims as exemplified by Mohammed.

I'm sorry but that's too much of a stretch IMO. To me that's like saying all Jews could become warlords based on the example of Joshua and the judges.

To compare Joshua and the Judges to that of Mohammed is to me is too much a stretch if not blasphemy. Their examples are obedience to the command of God in executing judgment to those evil nations. Mohammed is a false prophet and therefore not doing those massacres / war in obedience to God.

 

[RLBosley]

Westboro are not representative of true baptists for the reason that they are not following the teaching and practice of the original christians as exemplified by the Lord Jesus Christ.

On the other hand, ISIS is the representative of true muslims for the reason that they are following the teaching and practice of the earliest and original muslims as exemplify by Mohammed.

I agree with you. However you have to see that Westboro would deny that and say they are the only ones following the teachings of Christ.

To compare Joshua and the Judges to that of Mohammed is to me is too much a stretch if not blasphemy. Their examples are obedience to the command of God in executing judgment to those evil nations.

You misunderstood me. I was not, by any means, comparing them to Mohammed.

I was critiquing your statement that liberal or nominal Muslims are all potential terrorists because they could see they aren't following the example of Mohammed. That is too much of a stretch IMO and akin to saying that Jews are all potential warlords because they could see that they are not doing the same things as Joshua.

 

[faithcontender]

I agree with you. However you have to see that Westboro would deny that and say they are the only ones following the teachings of Christ.



You misunderstood me. I was not, by any means, comparing them to Mohammed.

I was critiquing your statement that liberal or nominal Muslims are all potential terrorists because they could see they aren't following the example of Mohammed. That is too much of a stretch IMO and akin to saying that Jews are all potential warlords because they could see that they are not doing the same things as Joshua.

You are implicating that Joshua and the Judges are doing it just like Mohammed did.

Some Jews and Christians could mis-apply those examples in the old testament but we know from the study of scriptures that those are wrong application for today as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ!

But for liberal muslims, when they become radicals they are just following what Mohammed did and considered to be still the same correct application as taught in their book.

 

[RLBosley]

You are implicating that Joshua and the Judges are doing it just like Mohammed did.

No I'm not. Not even close.

Some Jews and Christians could mis-apply those examples in the old testament but we know from the study of scriptures that those are wrong application for today as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ!

Agreed.

But for liberal muslims, when they become radicals they are just following what Mohammed did and considered to be still the same correct application as taught in their book.

You seem to have a double standard.

 

[faithcontender]

You seem to have a double standard.

This is not a double standard! Jews and Christians will be doing it by not balancing the study of Holy Scriptures!

On the other hand, Muslims will do it by studying correctly what is stated in their books (Quran and Hadiths).

But of course liberal muslims will say that they are the one who do the balance study of their books. I believe, Mohammed would not agree with them if they are in his time.