The Lord Jesus said, "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish' (Luke 13:5), so it would seem to be heretical to deny that you must repent to be saved.
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Is it heretical to say that you must repent to be saved?
- Thread starter Cavell
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Danthemailman
Active Member
John 6:65 - And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
Acts 11:17 - Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. *Two sides to the same coin.
There are those who misunderstand what it means to repent and believe the gospel/place faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The church of Christ for example has a gospel “plan” of hear, believe, repent, confess, and be water baptized in that order and according to them, you will be saved ONLY AFTER you have completed all five steps. To such people, faith is understood as nothing more than ‘intellectual assent” to the existence and historical facts about Christ and repentance on the other hand is understood as moral “self-reformation.”
In regards to faith, such people fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing/trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and such people cannot distinguish between mere intellectual belief or assent from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.
Their misunderstanding gives rise to their reversal of the scriptural order of repentance and belief/faith, yet to the contrary, when we find that repentance precedes belief/faith:
Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Mark 1:15 - and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
The key question would be "repent of exactly what?"The Lord Jesus said, "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish' (Luke 13:5), so it would seem to be heretical to deny that you must repent to be saved.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Dan,
Take a look at this and tell me what you see:
" Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:36-38 )
Danthemailman
Active Member
In Acts 2:37, these Jews were pricked in their heart and came to believe that Jesus is the Messiah and that they were guilty of crucifying Him (Acts 2:37) yet that is not believing in Christ unto salvation yet. They still needed to repent "change their mind" and believe/trust exclusively in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. So repentance did not precede believing in Christ unto salvation here.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
Dave G
Well-Known Member
It's not?
Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
For the record, I see belief followed by repentance followed by baptism.
I imagine it might get very interesting if I get into stating where I think regeneration fits in.
I did not read this thread, so if this is redundant, my bad.
Repentance and faith, turning and trusting are two sides of the same coin. At first you did not trust God, or trust Him fully, but you changed your thinking (mental turn) and put your trust or your full trust in God, faith. Those that seem them as two separate things are in my opinion off track.
Repentance and faith, turning and trusting are two sides of the same coin. At first you did not trust God, or trust Him fully, but you changed your thinking (mental turn) and put your trust or your full trust in God, faith. Those that seem them as two separate things are in my opinion off track.
Repentance and faith are, as it were, the two legs on which we must enter the kingdom of God. And there are no Long John Silvers hopping into the kingdom on one leg crying, "I believe! I believe!" Without ever repenting of their sins; just as no one enters sorrowing over his sins without trusting in the Saviour for salvation. So Van is correct that they are two sides of the same coin.
So our belief must be a repentant belief, and our repentance a believing repentance That is why the Lord Jesus regularly referred people who came to Him to the Law (e.g. Mark 10:17-19; Luke 10:25-26) and why preachers of the 17th -19th Centuries used to preach the commandments, not so that unsaved people would keep them, but so that they would be convicted and turn to Christ.
that they are two sides of the same coin.So our belief must be a repentant belief, and our repentance a believing repentance That is why the Lord Jesus regularly referred people who came to Him to the Law (e.g. Mark 10:17-19; Luke 10:25-26) and why preachers of the 17th -19th Centuries used to preach the commandments, not so that unsaved people would keep them, but so that they would be convicted and turn to Christ.
Danthemailman
Active Member
Repentance may follow "mental assent" belief in a set of facts about Christ, yet repentance precedes "believes in Christ unto salvation."It's not?
Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
For the record, I see belief followed by repentance followed by baptism.
I imagine it might get very interesting if I get into stating where I think regeneration fits in.
If these Jews in Acts 2:37 already believed unto salvation/were already saved, then why did they still need to repent? Was belief followed by repentance in Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21? Water baptism "follows" repentance/belief/conversion. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18) *Also see post #33.
Danthemailman
Active Member
Repent "change of mind" -- new direction of that change of mind -- "believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation." *Two sides to the same coin.
To say that we truly believe and are saved, but we never repented is an oxymoron. Also, to say that we truly repented and are saved, but we don't believe is an oxymoron.
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They had just heard that Jesus was truly the Christ influenced by the Spirit of God. The leadership of Israel denied it. So they needed to metanao and believe it. This was a unique happening in God's governance of the world going from the promise to the Jews to the promise to the Gentiles for salvation under the Abrahamic Covenant.
If they had already truly believed under the Law of Moses then they would believe on Christ when hearing concerning Him via the influence of the Holy Spirit.otherwise they could not "change their mind" (at least not at the moment).
Repentance and faith are, as it were, the two legs on which we must enter the kingdom of God. And there are no Long John Silvers hopping into the kingdom on one leg crying, "I believe! I believe!" Without ever repenting of their sins; just as no one enters sorrowing over his sins without trusting in the Saviour for salvation. So Van is correct
So our belief must be a repentant belief, and our repentance a believing repentance That is why the Lord Jesus regularly referred people who came to Him to the Law (e.g. Mark 10:17-19; Luke 10:25-26) and why preachers of the 17th -19th Centuries used to preach the commandments, not so that unsaved
people would keep them, but so that they would be convicted and turn to Christ.
I spilled my coffee and fell out of my chair.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
When i came to the Lord in 1978, that's how it happened for me.
First, I heard the word of my salvation...my sin before God, my need of a Saviour, and then..."whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
After I believed on Christ, I began to sense the importance of repentance, and began confessing my sins to the Lord.
I did not repent first, I believed first.
That is the exact, same thing I see in the passage I quoted...when they, heard, they were "pricked" in the heart, and then they asked Peter what they should do.
What did Peter tell them?
Repent and be baptized.
Why did they "need" to repent?
Because repentance is a heart attitude that characterizes a child of God...it does not facilitate, or "trigger" anything.
Genuine repentance must be present in a person if they are saved...it is not a "prerequisite".
May God bless you sir.
Let alone a stopped clock twice a day.I promise not to say anything about blind hogs and acorns.
Danthemailman
Active Member
How do you define "believed on Christ" and how do you define "repentance"? It's one thing to merely believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Christ and it's yet another thing to believe/trust in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. God bless you.When i came to the Lord in 1978, that's how it happened for me.
First, I heard the word of my salvation...my sin before God, my need of a Saviour, and then..."whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
After I believed on Christ, I began to sense the importance of repentance, and began confessing my sins to the Lord.
I did not repent first, I believed first.
That is the exact, same thing I see in the passage I quoted...when they, heard, they were "pricked" in the heart, and then they asked Peter what they should do.
What did Peter tell them?
Repent and be baptized.
Why did they "need" to repent?
Because repentance is a heart attitude that characterizes a child of God...it does not facilitate, or "trigger" anything.
Genuine repentance must be present in a person if they are saved...it is not a "prerequisite".
May God bless you sir.
True. Many in "Christendom" give mental assent and and some in "Christendom" even MORE to Jesus.How do you define "believed on Christ" and how do you define "repentance"? It's one thing to merely believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Christ and it's yet another thing to believe/trust in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. God bless you.
Lord, Lord, have we not ...in thy name done many wonderful works?
true - no mention of trust.
Danthemailman
Active Member
True. Many "nominal" Christians trust in their alleged wonderful works to save them and not in Christ alone. Jesus NEVER knew these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 which means they were NEVER saved.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
"Believed on Christ" = Believed that He is the only hope a person haves for the forgiveness of their sins. Otherwise, Hell awaits.
" Repentance" = To turn away from sin, to agree with God that sin is wrong and not want to commit it. True repentance, at least from my experience, eventually leads to a mourning over sin...a personal loathing of one's own sins because it has offended the best Friend a person could ever have, despite being forgiven and cleansed of them at the cross. Please see David's own personal mourning of his sins in Psalms 51.
I agree most wholeheartedly, Dan.