Is It Humbleness First & Grace Second?

[JonShaff]

Nope. Try again.


He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[Acts 5:31]

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18]

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,[2 Timothy 2:25]

I have shown you four verses that state repentance is a gift of God, and not a choice made by fallen man to repent or not.

Oh Willis, each one of those passages has a context. Shooting verses at each other without explaining the Hoy Spirit's intended meaning for the passage is not helpful, IMO. For instance, the 2 Timothy passages seemingly is talking about a brother or sister who are willingly opposing the truth as the elder is admonishing them to walk Godly according the the teachings of Scripture.

To speak generally, Of Course God "Grants repentance." This is His world and He allows what He wills. This is not something to build an argument for "grace before humility." Salvation is all of God--Justification, Sanctification, Glorification.

I know you believe in irresistible grace, do you believe in irresistible GROWTH? If not, why not?

 

[TCassidy]

I know you believe in irresistible grace, do you believe in irresistible GROWTH?

Does the Grace of God ever fail to accomplish that which God decrees it must accomplish?

 

[JonShaff]

Does the Grace of God ever fail to accomplish that which God decrees it must accomplish?

I do not believe God ever fails.

 

[JonShaff]

Does the Grace of God ever fail to accomplish that which God decrees it must accomplish?

Can a person fail to mature the way God intended them to?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Oh Willis, each one of those passages has a context. Shooting verses at each other without explaining the Hoy Spirit's intended meaning for the passage is not helpful, IMO. For instance, the 2 Timothy passages seemingly is talking about a brother or sister who are willingly opposing the truth as the elder is admonishing them to walk Godly according the the teachings of Scripture.

To speak generally, Of Course God "Grants repentance." This is His world and He allows what He wills. This is not something to build an argument for "grace before humility." Salvation is all of God--Justification, Sanctification, Glorification.

I know you believe in irresistible grace, do you believe in irresistible GROWTH? If not, why not?

Again, look at the context. In Acts 11, Peter retells the account at Cornelius' house, and that how those who heard the word, the Spirit came upon them and saved them. Up until that time, they Jews thought salvation was solely for the Jews. They then stated “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” They knew it was God who granted them repentance.

In Acts 5, Peter testifies to the Sanhedrin that it was the Christ that the Jews had took and slain(rather it was the Romans at the Jews insistence) and God had raised Him from the dead. Peter then stated "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." It was after His resurrection that salvation was finished.

 

[JonShaff]

Again, look at the context. In Acts 11, Peter retells the account at Cornelius' house, and that how those who heard the word, the Spirit came upon them and saved them. Up until that time, they Jews thought salvation was solely for the Jews. They then stated “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” They knew it was God who granted them repentance.

In Acts 5, Peter testifies to the Sanhedrin that it was the Christ that the Jews had took and slain(rather it was the Romans at the Jews insistence) and God had raised Him from the dead. Peter then stated "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." It was after His resurrection that salvation was finished.

Right, so if He granted Repentance to Israel as a whole, then why did some not believe? See how illogical these arguments become, brother? Please stop with the mental gymnastics. Just take God at His Word. He calls all men everywhere to repent and believe the Gospel. One must humble themselves (a command throughout all of Scripture) and believe that God is who He says He is.

And I confess, as I read, study and preach through Ephesians, I better not do anything to disrupt the unity that God has established in His Church. So, I'd rather not try and "win", but I'd rather do my best to edify and encourage my brothers and sisters. This is really a stupid debate. Let us simply rejoice together that God saved us.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Right, so if He granted Repentance to Israel as a whole, then why did some not believe? See how illogical these arguments become, brother? Please stop with the mental gymnastics. Just take God at His Word. He calls all men everywhere to repent and believe the Gospel. One must humble themselves (a command throughout all of Scripture) and believe that God is who He says He is.

And I confess, as I read, study and preach through Ephesians, I better not do anything to disrupt the unity that God has established in His Church. So, I'd rather not try and "win", but I'd rather do my best to edify and encourage my brothers and sisters. This is really a stupid debate. Let us simply rejoice together that God saved us.

No, He did not grant Israel repentance as a whole. No more than He granted repentance to every Gentile whoever lived.

But the context is its God who grants repentance, not something fallen man drums up within himself.

 

[Rockson]

Nope. Try again.


He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[Acts 5:31]

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18]

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,[2 Timothy 2:25]

Well SovereignGrace I think another poster has addressed the basic thought of how these verses should be considered and that is it is God's world and he allows what he allows. I will speak on a couple of them here though....first Rom 2:4 that the kindness of God leads one to repentance...yes absolutely but isn't the Bible filled with a great many examples where God was good but people still rebelled. Actually Adam & Eve were such individuals. Everything God did for them was good and very good...and yet......

Most certainly. He even said in the verse you quoted, not to think lightly of his kindness (and goodness) so logically if they did it wouldn't lead them to repentance. Also your quote of 2 Tim 2:25 notice the exhortation to be gentle towards those in opposition if perhaps God may grant them repentance?

Should you maybe consider if you're not that can effect them to...coming to repentance? If they were one of God's elect anyway why even the need to tell them to be gentile? It's directly connected to the thought that it might effect them actually repenting. Why would that matter if they're the elect they're the elect and that's all there is to it?

 

[TCassidy]

Can a person fail to mature the way God intended them to?

The question was "Does the Grace of God ever fail to accomplish that which God decrees it must accomplish?"

 

[TCassidy]

I do not believe God ever fails.

Great! You believe in Efficacious Grace. Wonderful. 1 down and 4 to go.

 

[Rockson]

I think "grace" as used in the verses you cited may be enabling grace, not salvific grace. Btw, the passage from Luke says "justified", not grace or salvation.

That's important because the Pharisee was attempting to justify (validate) himself before men. The publican was justified (validated) before God because of his humility. This passage is not talking about salvation and how it occurs.

Sure I get what you're saying on one level BUT I'd still hold it must still be a universal principle of the criteria on which God releases his grace. Humility MUST come first.....and the grace second. As it is written, God resists the proud but gives his grace to the humble. 1 Peter 5:6 It seems PRIDE is the one thing God won't over ride. Lucifer lifted himself up with PRIDE Isaiah 14:12 and God didn't respond by just implanting humility within him. So it seem the same with men.

God would as the scripture states, humble his people in Exodus Deut 8:2 but in context not really the same thing as actually putting humility within them. He created circumstances where they still needed to depend on him for resources but they still choose to rebel and complain....the opposite of humility. As I say it doesn't seem any way to get humility into people except they merely choose to approach God in that fashion. Irresistible grace therefore doesn't seem to exist. The kind, loving grace of God which doesn't force or just change people against their wills apparently does. PEACE

 

[canadyjd]

I appreciate the post. I believe scripture teaches a universal principle that is easy to understand about how grace is released.

If a man/woman is responding with faith to what God has done in their life, that is grace.

If God is responding to what a man/woman has done in their life, that is works based salvation.

Peace to you

 

[Rockson]

I appreciate the post. I believe scripture teaches a universal principle that is easy to understand about how grace is released.

If a man/woman is responding with faith to what God has done in their life, that is grace.

If God is responding to what a man/woman has done in their life, that is works based salvation.

Peace to you

If a man/woman is responding with faith to what God has done? Why would they have to respond in faith at all then? God said according to your faith so shall it be done [future tense] unto you Matt 9:29 All the hero's of faith the same....faith, taking them to the end result. Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Moses and more....faith first....end result second.

"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise..." Heb 11:39

 

[canadyjd]

Everyone has their own verses they believe supports their position. I tend to believe that if a person can reconcile the verses of their opposition with their own verses, and in a way that is reasonable to the context of both sets of scripture, that person has a superior argument.

With that in view, Matt. 9:29, in context, is an account of a blind man asking for Jesus to restore his sight. It is not referring to someone asking for forgiveness of sins or salvation.

 

[Dave G]

Everyone has their own verses they believe supports their position. I tend to believe that if a person can reconcile the verses of their opposition with their own verses, and in a way that is reasonable to the context of both sets of scripture, that person has a superior argument.

How about reconciling all of God's word with all of it ( Matthew 4:4 )?

From my experience, that is taking a long time.
Could it be that some of you are just not seeing the things that are actually there in His word, because you've not taken Him up on His commands ( 2 Timothy 2:15 ) much?

I know that the world and the troubles of this life often get in the way of me spending time with the Lord in His word, and Satan does a good job at trying to distract me endlessly.

I firmly believe that all of God's children could be better at this:

" Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 if so be ye have tasted that the Lord [is] gracious." ( 1 Peter 2:1-3 )

I stopped reading it in "verses" many years ago now, and it's taken that long to look at it like the book of letters that it really is.




May God be pleased to reveal Himself to you, through His word and through His gifts, more and more until you see Him.

 

[Dave G]

Humility MUST come first.....and the grace second.

Rockson,
Does not His own word give us the details about our very nature, before He changes it?

With respect, I see that you're putting the pieces together the wrong way.
Many believers clearly understand that man's "default condition" is dead in sin, because there are many Scriptures, and whole chapters, that "paint" it this way.

But for some reason, you don't see man as dead, spiritually before God...you only appear to see us as "wounded" and "sick", barely able to lift a finger to God.
While I see us, collectively, lifting THE finger to God.

You post this verse as ( I assume ) proof that man must humble himself before God can take him to the next step...do you realize who this verse is speaking to?

" Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. " ( 1 Peter 5:5-7 )

Believers, not unbelievers.

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." ( 1 Peter 1:1-5 )

The entire letter of 1 Peter is addressed to believers, not unbelievers..."Strangers" is the Biblical word for "Gentiles" as referenced in parts of the Old Testament, and the verses above detail them as being elect ( chosen ) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.

He is telling them to humble themselves before their Father, so that He may exalt them in due time.

See also James 4:1-10.



In both passages, God is telling believers to humble themselves before God, and He will lift them up...not all of mankind.
It is a principle reserved for His children.

No man can or will humble himself before the God that he hates, unless God changes his desires.
That is what Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-17, and John 3:19-20, among many others, teaches.




To me ( as an analogy ), what you're suggesting is that a ship with a broken rudder fix itself, before its course can be changed.
Someone other than the ship has to fix the ship.


God bless you sir.

 

[Rockson]

Rockson,
Does not His own word give us the details about our very nature, before He changes it?

Yes mankind has a degenerated nature. The question is to what degree. You might answer absolutely, 100% with no measure where they're not depraved. I don't agree as individuals vary on how evil they want or choose to be. Jesus referred to degrees of degradation as well. Matt 23:15, Matt 11:23

With respect, I see that you're putting the pieces together the wrong way.
Many believers clearly understand that man's "default condition" is dead in sin, because there are many Scriptures, and whole chapters, that "paint" it this way.

Well Dave your position is man in his natural state is absolutely depraved it seems with no variation. I'd contend such could not be. We read in Romans 1, where it's speaking of ungodly cultures that they'd suppress the truth. The Bible states, "wherefore " meaning because they had done this God then gave them up to reprobate mind....so....from of degree of depravity to another. From the day a person is born there's a measure of long suffering and mercy God gives each individuals they have in dealing with light they've been provided. When it reaches a point where they've obviously rejected it then the "wherefore" kicks in and begins to take effect.....he turns them over to a greater depravity. Again correct me if I'm wrong but your position is mankind is totally and absolutely depraved. as dark as they ever could be...from birth.

But for some reason, you don't see man as dead, spiritually before God...you only appear to see us as "wounded" and "sick", barely able to lift a finger to God.

Spiritual death means separation from God. That's all it means. You can't draw comparisons from natural death to spiritual death as the same thing. That which is of flesh is flesh and that which is of spirit is spirit. A spirit which is in spiritual death is mentally capable of hearing and responding to the instructions of God.

You post this verse as ( I assume ) proof that man must humble himself before God can take him to the next step...do you realize who this verse is speaking to?

Well for sure that letter Peter wrote he wrote to Christians. There's no need to try to prove that in any depth to demonstrate something nobody would deny. But that reveals NOTHING whatsoever that these principles of humans humbling themselves shouldn't apply universally to all men. It's almost like you're suggesting natural man doesn't have any capacity to show humility whatsoever because of being depraved. Not true.

Even something as simple as a super talented member of a sports team shares the glory with his fellow team mates claiming it was all a team effort. Humility is humility whether it be found in saint or sinner. As an example you can see King Ahab a wicked king hardly one of a noble Christian character who'd commit many atrocities and when God told him judgement was going to fall on him he, the Bible says, he humbled himself before God and fasted and prayed and God held back the judgement until the next generation.

“Dogs will eat those belonging to Ahab who die in the city, and the birds will feed on those who die in the country.”(There was never anyone like Ahab, who sold himself to do evil in the eyes of the Lord, urged on by Jezebel his wife. He behaved in the vilest manner by going after idols, like the Amorites the Lord drove out before Israel.)When Ahab heard these words, he tore his clothes, put on sackcloth and fasted. He lay in sackcloth and went around meekly.Then the word of the Lord came to Elijah the Tishbite: 29“Have you noticed how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself, I will not bring this disaster in his day, but I will bring it on his house in the days of his son.” 1 King 21: 24-28

 

[Dave G]

Yes mankind has a degenerated nature. The question is to what degree

I have no question about what spiritual degree man is depraved ( de = thoroughly, praved = crooked, corrupt )...as to what physical degree, that differs considerably, IMO.
It's never been described by those who are called "Calvinists" as thoroughly immoral, outwardly.
It's always described in the Bible as spiritually corrupt...This is easily observed in society and manifests itself outwardly with varying degrees from ambivalence towards God, to outright hatred of Him when His name is mentioned.

We read in Romans 1, where it's speaking of ungodly cultures that they'd suppress the truth.

We read in Romans 1:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: " ( Romans 1:18-20 )

Not ungodly cultures, but men in general. The passage is giving a history of the downfall of mankind into corruption, spiraling into spiritual darkness.
All men hold the truth in unrighteousness, not just ungodly cultures.

Americans, Brits, Germans, everyone who God does not intervene and change their natures, is under the same default condition.
I'm not sure why you classify it as "cultures", but in the words on the page, there in nothing there that says that.

There is no such thing as a godly culture, except one exclusively made up of believers in Jesus Christ.

The Bible states, "wherefore " meaning because they had done this God then gave them up to reprobate mind

Agreed.

From the day a person is born there's a measure of long suffering and mercy God gives each individuals they have in dealing with light they've been provided

Please list Scripture for that.

Spiritual death means separation from God. That's all it means. You can't draw comparisons from natural death to spiritual death as the same thing. That which is of flesh is flesh and that which is of spirit is spirit. A spirit which is in spiritual death is mentally capable of hearing and responding to the instructions of God.

I disagree with the first underlined segment, and here is why:

" This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness." ( Ephesians 4:17-19 )

That is spiritual death.
Spiritual death is a full blown turning of the back on God, and a turning of ones desires toward sin continually.

With regard to the second underlined, the answer has already been given above. A spirit which is in spiritual death is mentally unwilling to "hear" and respond to God favorably. Yes, they can physically hear, but they do not spiritually "hearken to".

See Romans 3:10-18.

It's almost like you're suggesting natural man doesn't have any capacity to show humility whatsoever because of being depraved. Not true.

I'm not just suggesting it, I'm stating it outright, but not the way you might think.
Men can show humility to other men, but before God, who sees the hearts and minds, there is not true humility towards Him unless He creates a new heart in him.

" Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." ( Psalms 51:10 )


As for Ahab, he did that which God commanded him under the Law, and God promised certain temporal, earthly blessings for those who obeyed it:

" If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." ( 2 Chronicles 7:14 )

This promise is given to the people of Israel, not to all men.
Notice that they have to already be called by His name...

In the earthly realm, those who were called by His name were Israelites who fell under the first covenant.
In the spiritual realm, no one is called by His name until they have believed on Him, and they fall under the second covenant...and there is nothing in the New Testament about humbling one's self as an unbeliever.

It is always in the context of being one of Christ's sheep.


To put it bluntly, there is a big difference between honoring God under the Law of Moses, which carried both earthly blessings and curses, and honoring God spiritually.



I hate to say it, Rockson, but your way makes God dependent upon man's response, and He is then locked into honoring His promise by what men do, or don't do. If a man can humble himself and gain God's favor by it, that violates Ephesians 2:9.



Sir, every approach to God is covered.
Every way that a man can conceivably think of to come to Him ( apart from him causing it, Psalms 65:4 ), is defeated by Romans 11:5-6 and Ephesians 2:8-10.


Think of it as a double lock...no man can come to Jesus except the Father draw him ( John 6:44 ) and no man can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ ( John 14:6 ) .
That is what Scripture teaches.

What does it accomplish?
It pulls the rug completely out from under man's efforts, and leaves him at the mercy of His grace.
There is then nothing that a saved person can base their salvation on, except His mercy and grace ( Titus 3:5 ).


Man cannot fool God into thinking that their hearts have has been changed, when God can see the hearts and minds. It's like trying to hide the chocolate-covered hand and lips from Mom when she asks if you've been in the cookie jar.

What's more is, God does not reward sinful men for their efforts at trying to purchase what is strictly a gift ( Romans 6:23 ).



If I haven't addressed this to you before, then I will now:

Eternal life is a gift, not a reward for good behavior, like "humbling one's self".
There are no "stepping stones" to gaining God's favor, because God is not a respecter of persons.


May God be pleased to show you great things, sir.

 

[Rockson]

All men hold the truth in unrighteousness.....

Nope. Not true Dave.

Americans, Brits, Germans, everyone who God does not intervene and change their natures, is under the same default condition.
I'm not sure why you classify it as "cultures", but in the words on the page, there in nothing there that says that.

There is no such thing as a godly culture, except one exclusively made up of believers in Jesus Christ.

Well I'm not referring to "godly culture" but culture which hasn't reached a point where they're absolutely and totally depraved in a way that you would say all unsaved cultures are. David I'll roll out here with my comments embedded this passage of Romans 1.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, [so there was a period of time they knew God. The wrath of God wasn't revelaed against them until they reached the point where they didn't glorify God] neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations [became vain not born that way from birth] and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, [became...not born that way] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore [wherefore...because they didn't acknowledge God they went to a lower level of degradation] God also gave them up to uncleanness [that means they weren't at the same level of degradation prior] through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:[again given up only after periods of time that they weren't so degraded] for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,[didn't mean they couldn't have retained God's knowledge and again we see God speaks again of therefore giving them up to a reprobate mind. That means they didn't have such before] God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers....." Romans 1: 18-32

 

[SovereignGrace]

Nope. Not true Dave.



Well I'm not referring to "godly culture" but culture which hasn't reached a point where they're absolutely and totally depraved in a way that you would say all unsaved cultures are. David I'll roll out here with my comments embedded this passage of Romans 1.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, [so there was a period of time they knew God. The wrath of God wasn't revelaed against them until they reached the point where they didn't glorify God] neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations [became vain not born that way from birth] and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, [became...not born that way] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore [wherefore...because they didn't acknowledge God they went to a lower level of degradation] God also gave them up to uncleanness [that means they weren't at the same level of degradation prior] through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:[again given up only after periods of time that they weren't so degraded] for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,[didn't mean they couldn't have retained God's knowledge and again we see God speaks again of therefore giving them up to a reprobate mind. That means they didn't have such before] God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers....." Romans 1: 18-32

They knew God, but what they knew about Him they attributed it to idols. That's the context.