Is it Immoral to Reject Jesus?

[Zaac]

It was pretty clear in the last election that neither candidate was a Christian, so it didn't matter which person we voted for in this respect.

But we could go to the next level. It was far more likely that Romney would support the pro-life movement and pro-life SC justices. Romney would have been more supportive of conservative views.

I didn't like that Romney was a Mormon, but he was still a better pick than Obama.

From a morality perspective, how can one person without Christ be more moral than the next person without Christ, if we were dealing with two lost people?

Since when are feelings moral? Morals are based upon actions that are measured against absolute truth.

 

[Winman]

From a morality perspective, how can one person without Christ be more moral than the next person without Christ, if we were dealing with two lost people?

Since when are feelings moral? Morals are based upon actions that are measured against absolute truth.

It is not my job to judge who is lost, but I don't think it very likely we will see either one of these guys in heaven. I hope I am wrong.

This is one of those cases where you have to choose the lesser evil, and I believe Romney is the lesser evil of the two.

Yes, we know Romney is not a Christian according to the scriptures. But we can be pretty certain Obama is not a Christian either. He has been outspoken on both abortion and homosexuality.

So, you have to go with the lesser evil, and that would be Romney. Romney would be more likely to support pro-life and pro-family issues.

 

[Zaac]

It is not my job to judge who is lost, but I don't think it very likely we will see either one of these guys in heaven. I hope I am wrong.

Me too. By God's grace, shall they be saved.

This is one of those cases where you have to choose the lesser evil, and I believe Romney is the lesser evil of the two

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Off topic. Not a discussion of the election.:thumbsup:

Yes, we know Romney is not a Christian according to the scriptures. But we can be pretty certain Obama is not a Christian either. He has been outspoken on both abortion and homosexuality

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From a morality perspective, is rejecting Jesus Christ less immoral than living in homosexual sin or getting an abortion?

So, you have to go with the lesser evil, and that would be Romney. Romney would be more likely to support pro-life and pro-family issues.

From a morality perspective, how do we deem the one who rejects Jesus Christ completely as more moral than someone who supports abortion and homosexuality? We're not even saying that he's committing the sins. Just that he supports them and is thus immoral.

Does that mean that the Christian who supports the one who rejects Christ is also immoral?

 

[Winman]

Me too. By God's grace, shall they be saved.

Yes.

Off topic. Not a discussion of the election.:thumbsup:

Well, a little late for that.

From a morality perspective, is rejecting Jesus Christ less immoral than living in homosexual sin or getting an abortion?

Rejecting Christ is worse, but Obama rejects Christ. How can a Christian openly support abortion and homosexuality? Lots of folks SAY they are Christians, but in action and deeds they deny him.

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

You seem to think Obama is alright because he claims to be a Christian, but the scriptures tell us there will be people who profess God, but their works deny him.

From a morality perspective, how do we deem the one who rejects Jesus Christ completely as more moral than someone who supports abortion and homosexuality? We're not even saying that he's committing the sins. Just that he supports them and is thus immoral.

Does that mean that the Christian who supports the one who rejects Christ is also immoral?

As I said, Obama SAYS he is a Christian, but his works deny Christ. You cannot seem to grasp this.

 

[Zaac]

Rejecting Christ is worse, but Obama rejects Christ. How can a Christian openly support abortion and homosexuality? Lots of folks SAY they are Christians, but in action and deeds they deny him.

But that's my point. If you don't believe President Obama is a follower of Jesus Christ ( and outside of saying that he is, I haven't seen anything that would publicly lead me to believe that he is) and if both reject Christ, how is one more immoral than the other?

The statement that was made was:

Anyone who promotes the murder of the innocent (abortion) and the homosexual agenda, plus loathes the Holy Scriptures is the most immoral. We have never had a POTUS make these claims. He stands alone.

What grounds does the evangelical church that supported a man who rejects Jesus Christ have for tabbing this man the most immoral when we were supporting someone equally immoral?

Conviction should not know compromise.

You seem to think Obama is alright because he claims to be a Christian, but the scriptures tell us there will be people who profess God, but their works deny him.

On the contrary. I still believe the man is a Muslim.

As I said, Obama SAYS he is a Christian, but his works deny Christ. You cannot seem to grasp this.

Oh I grasped that way before much of the evangelical church did. I've even told folks in the past that if the man wasn't the antiChrist, his first election was the perfect test run for how the antiChrist will appear out of nowhere and rise to power and have folks falling out and fawning over him as the savior of the world.

Louis Farrakhan, a devoted Muslim, said that Obama---a man who says he is a Christian---would be the savior of the world.

What Muslim says that about a Christian?

You DEFINITELY misunderstand my beliefs when it comes to Barack Hussein Obama.:laugh:

I'm just saying that if the church is gonna call this man immoral, then the church needs to repent and admit that it was attempting to place an euqally immoral, and equally without Christ man into office because our politics and the things of this world outweighed our convictions and the love of Christ.

 

[InTheLight]

Rejecting Jesus Christ is the default condition of the human race. It is unbelief, it is morally neutral, in that the condition of unbelief is not an action taken against other humans. Murder, stealing, lying, etc. directly affects others and so is more immoral than unbelief.

 

[JonC]

I see what you mean, Zaac. The difference is the agenda’s being pushed. I see from this thread you believe the Obama administration to be ungodly and immoral…and I agree…but supporting Romney is not supporting Mormonism (while supporting Obama is supporting homosexuality, abortion, etc. regardless of President Obama’s personal beliefs regarding those issues).

To rephrase: If I support President Obama’s administration/party then I am taking a stand for homosexuality, abortion, etc….a stand against God. This has nothing to do with President Obama’s religious beliefs. If I support Romney, then I am supporting the platform on which he stands and not his personal religious beliefs….and I am responsible for the support I render. It's not about the men but the ideologies that they represent and we, via our vote, stand for.

 

[righteousdude2]

Good Point ROLF ....

This has the appearance of being agenda-driven.

You are so correct .... this individual has been referred to as a troll by some here, and honestly, most of his OP's and comments on other's OP's have a hidden agenda coming from a moral standard that is, according to this person, higher and more in touch with God than this entire group combined could ever hope to achieve! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Zaac]

You are so correct .... this individual has been referred to as a troll by some here, and honestly, most of his OP's and comments on other's OP's have a hidden agenda coming from a moral standard that is, according to this person, higher and more in touch with God than this entire group combined could ever hope to achieve! :smilewinkgrin:

Well maybe we should start referring to you as selfrighteousdude since you apparently think your brand of foolishness can't be challenged.

And I don't have to hide an agenda to show the continued hypocrisy out of you and a bunch of others.

So if you have a pertinent comment, please leave it. Otherwise, skip-to-the-loo and take your judge by majority rule brand of morality on out of this thread.:smilewinkgrin::wavey:

 

[Don]

i see what you mean, zaac. The difference is the agenda’s being pushed. I see from this thread you believe the obama administration to be ungodly and immoral…and i agree…but supporting romney is not supporting mormonism (while supporting obama is supporting homosexuality, abortion, etc. Regardless of president obama’s personal beliefs regarding those issues).

To rephrase: If i support president obama’s administration/party then i am taking a stand for homosexuality, abortion, etc….a stand against god. This has nothing to do with president obama’s religious beliefs. If i support romney, then i am supporting the platform on which he stands and not his personal religious beliefs….and i am responsible for the support i render. It's not about the men but the ideologies that they represent and we, via our vote, stand for.

well said!!!

 

[Zaac]

I see what you mean, Zaac. The difference is the agenda’s being pushed. I see from this thread you believe the Obama administration to be ungodly and immoral…and I agree…but supporting Romney is not supporting Mormonism (while supporting Obama is supporting homosexuality, abortion, etc. regardless of President Obama’s personal beliefs regarding those issues).

That makes no sense. How do you deduce that supporting Obama being ungodly and immoral is any different than supporting Romney being ungodly and immoral?

If supporting Romney is not supporting his Mormonism and rejection of Christ, then how exactly is supporting Obama and the things he does out of his alleged rejection of Christ any different?

Yall just seem to have a different set of rules when it comes to politics and the side you want to support.

If they both reject Jesus Christ, how can supporting one be seen as suporting what he endorses while supporting the other isn't viewed the same way?

To rephrase: If I support President Obama’s administration/party then I am taking a stand for homosexuality, abortion, etc….a stand against God. This has nothing to do with President Obama’s religious beliefs.

According to him it does.

If I support Romney, then I am supporting the platform on which he stands and not his personal religious beliefs….and I am responsible for the support I render. It's not about the men but the ideologies that they represent and we, via our vote, stand for.

And that is hypocrisy because according to the masses on this board and throughout the evangelical church, it's not believed that he knows Jesus. So his beliefs would be based in his lostness just as ROmneys beliefs are based in his lostness.

It is absolutely crazy for the church to think that homosexuality and abortion reflect taking a stance against God, but that supporting someone who rejects Jesus Christ does not.

It matters.

J.W. Marriott, who heads the Marriott hotel chain, praised Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney for bringing "positive attention" to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Marriott is a personal friend of Romney and, like Romney, a Mormon.

"Today we see the church coming out of obscurity, and we see that 90 percent of what has been written and said, including an hour on NBC, an hour an half on CNN, two front-page articles in the Washington Post, many articles in the national news about the church, 90 percent of it has been favorable," Marriott said after a church service Sunday, according to Reuters. "And that's a great tribute to Mitt and Ann and their family for living such an exemplary life."

There is something extremely wrong in the church when we're all for giving the devil's lies a larger platform in one instance but screaming bloody murder about the wickedness of another tin the next minute.

 

[Zaac]

well said!!!

Yes, we've gotten very good at attempting to justify our hypocrisy.

 

[righteousdude2]

Oooooooh?

Well maybe we should start referring to you as selfrighteousdude since you apparently think your brand of foolishness can't be challenged.

And I don't have to hide an agenda to show the continued hypocrisy out of you and a bunch of others.

So if you have a pertinent comment, please leave it. Otherwise, skip-to-the-loo and take your judge by majority rule brand of morality on out of this thread.:smilewinkgrin::wavey:

.... did I step on a toe or two? Look brother, you really have a high sense of moraity that you have used to judge so many by on this board! It is not a tretch of imagination to see that you are reaching for something in order to pass judgement, once again, on the others that I consider brothers. Of course I consider you a brother too, but one that is kind of out there judging all the time according to a standard that is Zaacminded, and not Christ like!

Oh, and this was a pertinent comment, so sorry you failed to see it as such! It was related to anothers comment, and I thought it was "spot on!" :love2:

 

[SolaSaint]

I don't know anything about any strawmen. But I do know that CHRISTIANS need to stop talking about the immorality of the current President while refusing to repent of supporting someone who completely rejects Christ.

I made the same comment back then. Upon what grounds do we take a stance against the President's immorality when the world saw many in the church push for President a man, who by nature of his rejection of Jesus Christ, is completely immoral and on the way to hell?

The hypocrisy is startling to say the least

I'm only a fighter when there's an obvious case of wrong by the folks who should know better, but who continue to try and hide our wrong behind the guise of concern about issues rather than people.

WHo did you vote for Zaac?

 

[Zaac]

.... did I step on a toe or two? Look brother, you really have a high sense of moraity that you have used to judge so many by on this board! It is not a tretch of imagination to see that you are reaching for something in order to pass judgement, once again, on the others that I consider brothers. Of course I consider you a brother too, but one that is kind of out there judging all the time according to a standard that is Zaacminded, and not Christ like!

Oh, and this was a pertinent comment, so sorry you failed to see it as such! It was related to anothers comment, and I thought it was "spot on!" :love2:

I obviously stepped on yours tonight and a few times before which is no doubt why you syarted your little "he thinks he's holier than thou" retort.

It ain't that I have a high sense of morality. It's that you and a lot of folks on this board and in the church have a hypocritical sense of morality.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Zaac]

WHo did you vote for Zaac?

Neither of the primary two candidates. One was a confessing Mormon and rejected Jesus Christ. The other says he is a Christian but everything I saw says he doesn't know Jesus Christ.

So I did what I've done the last three elections: write-in.

 

[righteousdude2]

So, it okay to .....

I obviously stepped on yours tonight and a few times before which is no doubt why you syarted your little "he thinks he's holier than thou" retort.

It ain't that I have a high sense of morality. It's that you and a lot of folks on this board and in the church have a hypocritical sense of morality.:smilewinkgrin:

.... for you to say, "you and a lot of folks on this board and in the church have a hypocritical sense of morality." But, I can't question the way you have addressed so many on this board since you came to it In June 2012.

What would you like me to call your constant judgement of others on this board .... righteous castigation?

I can't remember too many, and I say, "too many" because I don't usually read your posts or comments. I purposely stay away because I know that you are going to preach at, to and down to those who you feel are hypocritical.

So, if your comments to me are acceptable, why would my observations of you not be permissible?

Oh, wait, I get it; you are above my level of spirituality. Well, forgive me for not recognizing that before now! :smilewinkgrin: So, let me just mosey on down the narrow path; thanking God that I am at least getting into heaven by the skin of my hypocritical teeth, while folks like you will need a moving van to haul away those crowns and rewards after the Great White Throne Judgement! :type:

 

[Yeshua1]

That's just an all around silly comment because it's no more agenda driven than Black Pastor: Obama is the “Most Immoral President We’ve Ever Had”.

So when you start calling those threads agenda driven too...:thumbsup:

the President is ineed the one with the MOST anti christian agenda that has ever been suppoted by a president though!

Biggest supporter of abortion/Gay rights. Islam, other religions, having public education destroying students world views...


he is gulity as charged!

What makes iy double bad is that he claim/profeeses that he is a christian, yet acts totally as if he is not, and too many Christian Black Americans took his ruse!

 

[Zaac]

.... for you to say, "you and a lot of folks on this board and in the church have a hypocritical sense of morality." But, I can't question the way you have addressed so many on this board since you came to it In June 2012.

What would you like me to call your constant judgement of others on this board .... righteous castigation?

I can't remember too many, and I say, "too many" because I don't usually read your posts or comments. I purposely stay away because I know that you are going to preach at, to and down to those who you feel are hypocritical.

So, if your comments to me are acceptable, why would my observations of you not be permissible?

Oh, wait, I get it; you are above my level of spirituality. Well, forgive me for not recognizing that before now! :smilewinkgrin: So, let me just mosey on down the narrow path; thanking God that I am at least getting into heaven by the skin of my hypocritical teeth, while folks like you will need a moving van to haul away those crowns and rewards after the Great White Throne Judgement! :type:

Yes please do mosey along. Ta-ta. Next time , you can save everyone some time and just remain out of the conversation.:thumbsup:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Perhaps the proper question should be….

"Is rejecting Zaac rejecting Jesus ?"

I say no.