Is it ok for a Church to have female deacons?

[jimslade]

NO! Its very difficult for a woman to "be the husband of one wife" sorry Ladies. The problem we have is ,that we have today elevated deacons to the point of elders, otherwise women could be deacons.

[ January 02, 2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: jimslade ]

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by jimslade:
NO! Its very difficult for a woman to "be the husband of one wife" sorry Ladies.

Then why did Paul accept Phoebe? (Romans 16:1) Furthermore, 1 Timothy 3:11 can be easily interpreted to be referring to female deacons.

The problem we have is ,that we have today elevated deacons to the point of elders, otherwise women could be deacons.

So are you saying that if a church doesn’t consider deacons to have the office of elder, then it’s okay?

That’s very good since our church does not make this error and we have female deacons.

 

[davpwrs4]

I don't know if woman can be deacons. I believe they should not be pastors or reverends though.

Your in Jesus Christ,

David P

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by jimslade:
NO! Its very difficult for a woman to "be the husband of one wife" sorry Ladies.

As noted in a different thread, the verse following this verse speaks to the demeanor of women in the deacon role.

 

[neal4christ]

As noted in a different thread, the verse following this verse speaks to the demeanor of women in the deacon role.

I believe you mean the verse preceding this verse, not following, don't you? And of course that would be a matter of interpretation as to what that verse speaks to, as can be seen in different translations.

Neal

 

[SaggyWoman]

yes.

 

[BrianT]

I am amazed at how many people are not reading previous replies. Oh well.

 

[Me2]

1 tim 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. (kjv)

Doesnt this sound confusing to you?..

a woman deacon being "called" a husband, in regards to a wife,......being another woman ?

doesn't the greek denote a female referring to the words...wife,..wives. (strong 1135)
....and the male reference to "husband" (strong 435)

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Me2:
1 tim 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. (kjv)

Doesnt this sound confusing to you?..

From page 2:
Actually, in 1 Tim 3:12, the Greek word translated "deacons" is in plural masculine form ("diakonos" is masculine singular, "diakonoi" is masculine plural), thus 1 Tim 3:12 obviously wouldn't apply to female deacons (such as Phoebe the feminine singular "diakonon" in Rom 16:1).

In other words, 1 Tim 3:12 is saying that MALE deacons should only have one wife. It is not discussing ALL deacons, just the MALE ones.

 

[Refreshed]

Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife.

If the gender was satisfied in "deacons," being written in masculine, then the writer would have no reason to signify husbands, also masculine. It would be redundant. The use of the word deacon (in the Greek masculine form) is generic in this sense by default, thus signifying that anyone who was to seek the office of a deacon must meet the qualification of being a husband of one wife.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Refreshed:
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife.

If the gender was satisfied in "deacons," being written in masculine, then the writer would have no reason to signify husbands, also masculine. It would be redundant.

No, it is not redundant, for being male doesn't mean one is also a husband by default. The verse says that if a male deacon is married (a husband), they should only have one wife. To say this verse to mean that females cannot be deacons because they cannot be a husband is stretching the verse way beyond what it actually says.

The use of the word deacon (in the Greek masculine form) is generic in this sense by default, thus signifying that anyone who was to seek the office of a deacon must meet the qualification of being a husband of one wife.

I agree it is somewhat generic, but only because deacons are *usually* male. But again, the verse does not preclude female deacons. It only says that if a deacon is male, they should have only one wife.

 

[Me2]

then could the same be said that a female seeking the role of a deacon,

not be married or be single.

"Seeing that she rule her own children and house".

....and would be taking responsibility and headship from the husband (s).

1 tim 3:12 let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their houses well.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Me2:
then could the same be said that a female seeking the role of a deacon,

not be married or be single.

"Seeing that she rule her own children and house".

....and would be taking responsibility and headship from the husband (s).

1 tim 3:12 let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their houses well.

AGAIN, the verse is talking about MALE deacons. Why is this so hard to understand? The Greek word for a MALE deacon is "diakonos" ("diakonoi" is plural of that, and is found in 1 Tim 3:12). The Greek word for a FEMALE deacon is "diakonon", and is the word in Rom 16:1. 1 Tim 3:12 is talking about MALE deacons. Rom 16:1 mentions a FEMALE deacon. This is simple, people. This is scripture, without any commentary or explanation. Don't let preconceptions take you away from these simple facts.

[ January 03, 2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

[Refreshed]

Brian,

Is there a neuter for "deacon" in the Greek, or just male and female forms?

Jason

 

[JIMNSC]

I think folks involved in this post might enjoy reading Matthew Henry's full commentary on the Bible of the Romans 16:1 passage.

 

[BrianT]

Hi Refreshed,

In reviewing my notes in looking up the answer to your question, I have discovered I have made a small mistake in my previous information (which I will clear up here, but the overall point is still true).

The root ("stem") word "diakon-" (pronounced dee-a-kon), means "deacon". Depending on what suffix is appended *and* which article is placed after the noun, we can determine the gender (masculine, feminine, neuter), number (singular, plural) and case (nominative, genitive, etc.).

In the case of "diakon(o)-", the endings can be -os (usually for masculine) or -on (for feminine and neuter). When we are trying to determine gender specifically, the article "a" or "the" gives the answer. In Rom 16:1, is says Phoebe is "diakonon ths": the noun is non-masculine, and the article is feminine. Thus she was a female "diakon-". I don't know of anywhere in scripture where "diakon-" is used in a neuter form, but in a form similar to Rom 16:1, it would say "diakonon tou" (intead of "ths").

Also, and I don't think this has been mentioned yet in this thread, Phoebe wasn't just a general "servant" because the Greek word for a servant in general is "doulos" (or doulon in non-masculine). Deacons were servants, but a specific type of servant - a specific role/office in the church. Phoebe was a "diakonon" of the church, not a "doulon" of the church.

 

[Aaron]

From what I have read of the anciet church (not much) there were two orders of deacons. The first order were to administrate, Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men...whom we may appoint over this business, and the second order were to lend aid and comfort.

Men served in each order, but the widows of 1 Tim. 5:9-10 would be of the second order only.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Aaron:
From what I have read of the anciet church (not much) there were two orders of deacons. The first order were to administrate, Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men...whom we may appoint over this business, and the second order were to lend aid and comfort.

Men served in each order, but the widows of 1 Tim. 5:9-10 would be of the second order only.

Can you give some scriptural support for this theory. I have heard this before somewhere, but I can't find any New Testament evidence.

 

[SaggyWoman]

To say that a female was a disciple, but not one of "the" "disciples" is okay....because there were disciples, as there are now, that are female.

But there are female disciples. "The" disciples are over with anyway.

There are female "deacons".

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
Can you give some scriptural support for this theory. I have heard this before somewhere, but I can't find any New Testament evidence.

The gifts of giving and mercy from Rom. 12 were the basis for the distinction in orders of deacons.

For me this explanation causes the instructions about widows in 1 Tim. 5 to make sense.

[ January 04, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]