Isaiah40:28
New Member
So is that a "Yes" that God willed sinful man to crucify His Son?Brother Bob said:
You seem to focus on what God knows but what about what God wills?
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Is it possible to resist God's will?
- Thread starter npetreley
- Start date
You seem to focus on what God knows but what about what God wills?
Brother Bob
New Member
"Not my will, but thine be done", I would have to say that He will that Jesus lay down His life for the sin of the world and that he would be crucified by Judas.So is that a "Yes" that God willed sinful man to crucify His Son?
You seem to focus on what God knows but what about what God wills?
Yes.
Isaiah40:28
New Member
And He was able to accomplish this because He knew in advance how all these sinful people would respond to Jesus?Brother Bob said:"Not my will, but thine be done", I would have to say that He will that Jesus lay down His life for the sin of the world and that he would be crucified by Judas.
Yes.
Brother Bob
New Member
He was able to accomplish this because He is God. I believe God knows the end from the beginning. I believe He knew and knows that Essau sold his birthright before he was ever born. I believe He knows how you and I are going to die and can see it now. I believe God is outside of time, and can see all things and knew what choice I would make to believe or disbelieve. I don't think He looked down through time but is able to see even now the beginning and the end of all things. I believe God can work in time when He wants, but before man there was no time and after the end comes for the world, time will cease to be again. Because God knows something does not mean He willed it.And He was able to accomplish this because He knew in advance how all these sinful people would respond to Jesus?
When you say, He knew in advance. I say He knows all things, even the end. He did not will, that Judas betray the Lord, but chose him, because He knew he would betray the Lord. The choice to betray the Lord was Judas's, and his alone. God knew what choice Judas was make, whether to betray the Lord, or not betray the Lord, but God did not will Judas to do it.
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Isaiah40:28
New Member
So that's another "yes"?Brother Bob said:When you say, He knew in advance. I say He knows all things, even the end. He did not will, that Judas betray the Lord, but chose him, because He knew he would betray the Lord. The choice to betray the Lord was Judas's, and his alone. God knew what choice Judas was make, whether to betray the Lord, or not betray the Lord, but God did not will Judas to do it.
He knew what sinful men would do, so God was able to "will" that sinful man would crucify His Son?Isaiah40:28 said:And He was able to accomplish this because He knew in advance how all these sinful people would respond to Jesus?
How do you take this verse?Acts 4: 28
They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.
Brother Bob
New Member
No, I misspoke, I highlighted what I meant that God knew what Judas would do, but did not will him to do it.Originally Posted by Brother Bob
When you say, He knew in advance. I say He knows all things, even the end. He did not will, that Judas betray the Lord, but chose him, because He knew he would betray the Lord. The choice to betray the Lord was Judas's, and his alone. God knew what choice Judas was make, whether to betray the Lord, or not betray the Lord, but God did not will Judas to do it.
So that's another "yes"?
God knew what they would do and willed that Jesus would die for the sins of men.Acts 4: 28
They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. How do you take this verse?
Are you saying that God is the author of sin?
Salamander
New Member
Judas went and hung himself, he did NOT crucify Jesus!Brother Bob said:"Not my will, but thine be done", I would have to say that He will that Jesus lay down His life for the sin of the world and that he would be crucified by Judas.
Yes.
Brother Bob
New Member
You are right, he betrayed him. If you will read my other posts, I said "betray him".Judas went and hung himself, he did NOT crucify Jesus
Jesus knew that he would betray him also, but did not will him to do it.
Salamander
New Member
Then why did Jesus number Judas with the 12?
Brother Bob
New Member
Have to ask Him. I suspect it having something to do with Judas being a devil from the beginning and God know all things. Why do you think He chose him?Then why did Jesus number Judas with the 12?
Jhn 13:21When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
Jhn 13:26Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped [it]. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave [it] to Judas Iscariot, [the son] of Simon.
Salamander
New Member
God chose Judas knowing he would betray Jesus to accomplish His Divine will.
God's will is to reprove the world of sin and to redeem men from their sin.
God's will is to reprove the world of sin and to redeem men from their sin.
Brother Bob
New Member
That is what I said in my previous post before you came but I also said because God knew what Judas would do, He did not will him to do it. Because God knows something does not mean he wills it. You agree or disagree?God chose Judas knowing he would betray Jesus to accomplish His Divine will.
God's will is to reprove the world of sin and to redeem men from their sin.
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
When you say, He knew in advance. I say He knows all things, even the end. He did not will, that Judas betray the Lord, but chose him, because He knew he would betray the Lord. The choice to betray the Lord was Judas's, and his alone. God knew what choice Judas was make, whether to betray the Lord, or not betray the Lord, but God did not will Judas to do it.
Salamander
New Member
Then you agree that things go contrary to the will of God?
Brother Bob
New Member
I don't believe God wills or is the author of sin, and all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.Then you agree that things go contrary to the will of God?
Brother Bob
New Member
This scripture is simply talking about that God had determined before hand that His Son would die for the sin of the world.Acts 4:
27: For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28: For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Salamander
New Member
OK, but since it was God's will that Jesus drink the cup of bitterness, but in His humanity to wish it were not so,Judas was numbered with the twelve, Jesus as a Lamb slain before the foundations of the world, God's Divine will that Jesus be led as a lamb to the slaughter and before her shearers dumb, and to pour out the wrath of Almighty God upon the body of Christ, then though it is not God's will that sin even exist, then it is God's will that men have the opportunity to have their sins forgiven due to the fact that God willed Jesus to die for all men's sins.
Brother Bob
New Member
It is the way that man was created in the beginning. God created man subject to vanity but it was not His will that man choose vanity, but He also made a way for their escape, for He (God) subjected the same (man) in Hope (Jesus Christ). It was the way that man was created in the beginning.
Salamander
New Member
So then by God subjecting men in hope, His will determines they all must repent according to a man's choosing the will of God or his own selfish will.
Brother Bob
New Member
Yes, choose whom you shall serve. Choose God and live or choose evil and die. No man can serve two masters. Its either one or the other. Many say to themselves, I will wait until I grow old and then I will turn to God, but death catches them in their evil days. That is why it says "seek the Lord in your youth while He may be found". Also, scripture says whatever you sow, ye shall also reap, if you so to the flesh, you shall die (second death), if you sow to the Spirit, you shall live. The Spirit is always there, but man can reject it, that is why they have no excuse for their sin.
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There is only one thing that I notice that is missing from this whole discussion, that is, sound theology.
Isn't it true that we must first move from text to theology then back to text and then to application? For example, what is the biblical doctrine of man? How has the Fall affected him and his progeny? And how does Scripture present the sovereignty of God on one hand and then human responsibility on the other hand?
Isn't it true that we must first move from text to theology then back to text and then to application? For example, what is the biblical doctrine of man? How has the Fall affected him and his progeny? And how does Scripture present the sovereignty of God on one hand and then human responsibility on the other hand?