Is it possible to resist God's will?

[Brother Bob]

Depends if you are a Cal or not I guess, or maybe whether you consider "faith" a work as Paul spoke of "works".
Then again, maybe it depends on whether you want to take away from God's Sovereignity by saying He can't create a man subject to vanity, but not willinly, without losing His Sovereignity.
Maybe it not the theology missing but the unability of some to understand the theology. What you think?

Or could it be the theology of John Calvin himself?

John Calvin comments: "First, it is clear enough that Christ is not speaking literally when he calls faith a ‘work,’ in the same way that Paul compares the law of faith with the law of works (see Romans 3:27)." (John Calvin

Calvin adds: "They had spoken about ‘works.’ Christ reminds them about one ‘work’--that is, faith, by which he means that everything that men do without faith is in vain and useless. Only faith is enough, because God requires that we ‘believe.’


Then again, I think that John Calvin spoke of it the other way also, so I really don't know what his stand was on being able to "believe" before regeneration, and it not being a "work" as Paul used "works of the Law".

 

[Isaiah40:28]

God knew what they would do and willed that Jesus would die for the sins of men.

So Acts 4:28:

They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

Means God knew what they would do so He willed that Jesus should die for the sins of men?
You know how I take it?
They(everyone named in vs. 27), did what God's power and will had decided before should happen.
God decided beforehand what should happen and according to His power and will... they did it.
And how did God do it?
He willed that sinful men be sinful and do what their wicked hearts devised.
As Amy G is fond of saying, "That's the plain interpretation of Scripture".

Are you saying that God is the author of sin?

No, I'm saying God willed that sinful man would crucify His Son.

 

[Brother Bob]

Are you saying that God is the author of sin? No, I'm saying God willed that sinful man would crucify His Son.

If God willed it, then He willed Judas to be lost. I think Judas was chosen because of what he was, the son of perdition.

In reality, Satan is the one who put into Judas heart for him to betray the Lord. I think God used Satan in a way that God's

Devine will would be carried out to set up His plan of Salvation. As far as Judas, he already was lost. I guess the real

question we should be asking, is not about Judas, for we are talking about God and His plan of Salvation, but rather we

should talk about the man, who recently raped a little girl and buried her alive. Now was it God's will, that man not do that.

Or is God the author of it?

God for sure, willed that His Son die for our sins, because Jesus tells us that. God also knew what Judas was, before Judas

was ever born, even in the beginning. I am one who believes that God is outside of time and can see all things at once. He

can be in time if He so desires, but He is not bound by time as we are, and He could see Judas was the son of perdition, and

let Satan convince him to betray the Lord.


I am glad you don't believe God is the author of sin. There are some Calvinist who believe He is the author of sin.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

I guess the real question we should be asking, is not about Judas, for we are talking about God and His plan of Salvation,

I want to ask about this part.
You can accept that God's plan of Salvation involved sinful men sinning in order for His will to be accomplished, is that right?
IOW, in order for God's plan of Salvation to be accomplished, men needed to sin.

Now, about God ordaining horrific acts of crime and violence, to say that God merely permits it acknowledges that God could prevent it. And countless unknown times, He does prevent it, I believe so.
So when He doesn't prevent it, what do we say?

 

[Brother Bob]

Now, about God ordaining horrific acts of crime and violence, to say that God merely permits it acknowledges that God could prevent it. And countless unknown times, He does prevent it, I believe so.
So when He doesn't prevent it, what do we say?

I would not use the word "ordain" for that would be to "order" or establish that someone do the act. I perfer to "used" someone to carry out His plan. What was ordained was that His Son would suffer for the sin of the world. God could see what Judas would do is why He chose him, the same as He could see Essau sell his birthright before he was born. God does allow things to take place, even though He could stop it if He desired but His will is to see if man will cease from sin and repent.

There is no doubt that God has used "satan" at times.

When He doesn't prevent it, then He allows it to happen, which does not mean He ordains it to happen.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

I would not use the word "ordain" for that would be to "order" or establish that someone do the act.

Yes, exactly like in Psalm 8:2, which you have previously discussed with me.

From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise because of your enemies to silence the foe and the avenger.

This is what you said before about it:

It means what greater witness than God would by the work of His fingers gives us babes and the moon, stars, etc. Have you ever looked at a little baby and say "thank you God for such a blessing"?

The verse says that "from the lips of children and infants", God has "ordained praise". Using what you just said about "ordain", that verse means that God can "order" or "establish" that children or infants praise Him to cause His enemies to fall silent.
Matthew 21:16 is where Jesus quotes Psalm 8:2 to explain why the children were saying "Hosanna to the Son of David" and the chief priests were angry about it.
There are many verses that speak of God ordaining man's actions, I'll provide just one.

Proverbs 16:9
In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

"determines" comes from the same word as "order" and "establish" and "ordain".

I perfer to "used" someone to carry out His plan.

No matter what you prefer to call it, the outcome is the same.
God's plans involved sinful men who sinned to accomplish His plan.

What was ordained was that His Son would suffer for the sin of the world.

Yes, and was it not ordained how He would suffer and die?
Jesus didn't hang Himself on the cross.
God willed that sinful men would do that in order to get rid of Jesus.
However, those sinful men did not realize that their sinful actions were part of God's plan. Acts 3:17 says that they acted in ignorance. Meaning in their sin, they ignorantly conformed to God's will.

Acts 4:17
They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

That's what the Bible is all about.
Sinful man doing His best to rid himself of God's law and will on his life, yet all the while ignorantly conforming to God's eternal will.

God could see what Judas would do is why He chose him

God didn't need to choose him then, Judas would do it regardless.
And Judas was eternally lost because God created him with full knowledge of his eternal destiny.

God does allow things to take place, even though He could stop it if He desired but His will is to see if man will cease from sin and repent.

So God can prevent sin, but He often does not because He's waiting to see if man will repent?
Doesn't He know already if men will repent?
Why does He need to permit the sin to know the outcome?
So when God prevents sinful actions from taking place, does He prevent someone from execising their free will in that sin?

When He doesn't prevent it, then He allows it to happen, which does not mean He ordains it to happen.

It means that He can prevent sin.
Which means that He has power over it.
Which means that He determines which actions will be "permitted" to happen.
Which means He ordains what will happen including sinful actions He allows and sinful actions He prevents.
The reason they do not happen is because of God.
The reason they do happen is because of God.

If He allows one sinful action and prevents the next, who is exercising His Free Will?
God is.
"He does as He pleases with the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand or say to him: What have you done?"
Daniel 4:35(quote in part)

I hope you will actually consider the questions and points I've raised and especially the passages that speak about God's actions.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

BTW, I won't be checking for a response for a few days or even a week, cause we're moving.
So take your time with any responses.

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

Isaiah 40:28 do you want God to be the author of sin? I believe God can bring good from evil acts. But that doesn't make Him the author of the evil act. God is light and there is no darkness in Him what so ever. God can purpose, prevent, and permit. and works His will with all three of these things. Just like He told Peter He would deny Him thrice before the cock crowed twice. He forknew what Peter would do and permitted him to do it. But He did not make him do it. I believe God can provide us grace in our time walk but if we lean to the flesh and not the Spirit I believe He can with hold His blessings and we can get in bad shape. But that did not make Him the author of it. And we are accountable to God for any sin we committ. If God was the author of sin then He would not have to permit Satan to still be around. But Satan is darkness and the author and father of liars and all evil acts. God can use him for his own purpose according to His forknowledge, but doesn't purpose in a direct decree to do any thing he does. thats my position and its the only place i can settle on. alot of what Brother Bob said on the forknowledge of God I agree with. I think you want him to make God the author of sin. I think to make God the author of sin is wrong. He is light.

 

[johnp.]

If God was the author of sin then He would not have to permit Satan to still be around.

He determined that Satan would be a tool to use. He doesn't have to do anything.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

john.

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Proverbs 16:9
In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
"determines" comes from the same word as "order" and "establish" and "ordain".

Psa 37:23 23: The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
24: Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

Steps of a evil man are of satan, but God allows it to happen.

God could of created man where all he could do, would be good, but He chose to create man subject to vanity.

It means that He can prevent sin.
Which means that He has power over it.
Which means that He determines which actions will be "permitted" to happen.
Which means He ordains what will happen including sinful actions He allows and sinful actions He prevents.
The reason they do not happen is because of God.
The reason they do happen is because of God.

Not ordains sinful actions but allows them. He allowed them to kill our Lord. Mat 26:53Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

If He allows one sinful action and prevents the next, who is exercising His Free Will?
God is.
"He does as He pleases with the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand or say to him: What have you done?"
Daniel 4:35(quote in part)

I see nothing wrong here, He is God after all.

God could see what Judas would do is why He chose him God didn't need to choose him then, Judas would do it regardless.
And Judas was eternally lost because God created him with full knowledge of his eternal destiny.

God could of stopped him but He did not but allowed him to betray the Lord. Satan caused him to do it. Scripture says that Satan put into Judas heart, to betray the Lord.

What was ordained was that His Son would suffer for the sin of the world. Yes, and was it not ordained how He would suffer and die?
Jesus didn't hang Himself on the cross.
God willed that sinful men would do that in order to get rid of Jesus.
However, those sinful men did not realize that their sinful actions were part of God's plan. Acts 3:17 says that they acted in ignorance. Meaning in their sin, they ignorantly conformed to God's will.

I agree that in their sins they slew the Prince of Life, but God again had to allow them to do it. Satan put it in their minds to do so.

I think I covered all of your points, but if I missed some, let me know. God Bless,

I wish you good luck in moving. I am too old to move anymore. It is one of the hardest jobs a man and woman ever does. I have moved several times in my life but where I am now, I have my own cemetary on the hillside, where I will await my Lord.