Is it really SIN to be angry with God ?

[Frogman]

Dear Brother Joseph,

I have been personally angry with God, while it is a sin, it is a human reaction that most who have suffered will experience. This does not justify it, but for those who do endure by God's Grace, it is the working of affliction that purge's them in order that they may bring forth more fruit.

That is the way I have come to view my own experience.

May God Bless,
Bro. Dallas

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Bro. Dallas,

I agree that it is common and that it is a sin. I also agree that it is the grace of God that brings us forgiveness, healing, and restoration.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Frogman]

Did John the Baptist question God?

Luke 7:18-22
Matthew 11:2-5

Does this mean it is justified?

Matthew 11:6
Luke 7:23

Bro. Dallas

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I could be missing your point here, but I see no anger or accusation in his question. Therefore, I fail to see how it relates to the topic. Please explain.


Joseph Botwinick

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
It wasn't wrong to be angry for righteous reasons,

I agree. You are right, I am not understanding. Tell me again the righteous reason you or anyone else has for saying, feeling, or thinking God is wrong.

Jesus KNEW why he came to earth he knew he came to die, He knew why things were happing to him and what the SOURCE was. Big difference !
At the time I didn't understand what was happening I didn't know if it was me, others or God. See the difference.

Yes, I see the difference but that is not what I am talking about. Jesus did not get angry with God because God did not do anything wrong. You and I may get angry with God because we THINK He did something wrong but that doesn't change the fact that He still did not do anything wrong. I completely understand when you say that you didn't understand (I very frequently do not understand). I don't know whether it is me or others but I know for a fact that it is not God because God is perfect, He is light and in Him is no darkness at all. You keep defending anger but anger has never been the issue. It is the "with God" part that is being debated. God is always right. If I say He is wrong, if I think He is wrong, or if I feel He is wrong then I am wrong in that judgement.

I and my Pastor NEVER blasphemied God,

I don't know whether you or your Pastor have blasphemed God or not, that is not for me to decide and is none of my business. I merely gave you the definition of basphemy: vilification (especially against God): - evil speaking, railing. You are the one saying it is OK to vilify and rail againt God.

Stop tryin to put what I am saying into the catagories of SIN

Stop trying to put what you are sayin OUT of the categories of sin.

Artimaeus NEVER answered my question on how you would feel if you had a child, wife, sister, mother, kidnapped raped and murdered.

I didn't think it was relevant to the conversation (my actions are not the standrd for what is right and wrong) but I will answer you question, nonetheless.

I would feel (and I am guessing here) extreme anger, hatred, boiling and seething violence. I would probably try my dead level best to kill the person who harmed my loved one. I would empty my high-powered Winchester 30-30 into their by now very dead body and then reload and do it again. Stopping only when I ran out of bullets or was restrained by someone. Now, does that make it all right. It is my honest feelings, it is how I really feel, it is righteous anger blamed on the person who was actually wrong. Wanting to do that, being willing to do that is as aggregious a sin as actually performing the act. Uh-oh, I shot the wrong man. It turns out he was not guilty and I was angry at the wrong man all along. Oh, well, as long as my feelings were honest it is OK. Do you really think it is OK to be angry, and say so, with the innocent? Is that righteous.

I have not accused you of being mean spirited.
I have not accused you of being self righteous.
I have not accused you of being judgemental.
I have not accused you of being a Pharisee.
I have not accused you of being a fool.
I have not accused you of serving a different God.

You started a discussion and asked for our thoughts. I have given you my thoughts.

 

[RightFromWrong]

I can not figure how anyone can say I am mad at God at this point in my life. I never said I was. I said over 3 years ago I went through a 5 year period 1998-2003 where I would question God on and off. And yet I still remained FAITHFUL to his word, to his church ( at least 3 1/2 years worth ) to others, to my family, I NEVER sinned and am a better person for it if nothing else at least I am more compasionate.

Joesph I am going by these and other post you have made on how judgmental you can be. I think people can see from reading my post, I am not judgmental towards people ( not that I do not get frustrated with their bullheadness ) but I will stand up for the truth. And if you go back to my old post, you will see I DO answer you !

Like I said before many people including my pastor get it and I know so do others on this board they have said so and I am sure many are afraid to say so.

 

[RightFromWrong]

Frogman wrote........I have been personally angry with God, while it is a sin, it is a human reaction that most who have suffered will experience. This does not justify it, but for those who do endure by God's Grace, it is the working of affliction that purge's them in order that they may bring forth more fruit.

That is the way I have come to view my own experience.

RIGHT on Frogman....Thats exactly right. Only those who have experenced anything like I have will understand.

Joesph....I am not talking about a once in awile trial I am talking NON stop 5 years worth.

Just one of many examples torwards the end of the 5 years, when we moved I was falsly arrested after the buyer of our house ATTACKED me physically beating me up along with her husband, because one of her goats died in a trailer, when the realitor said they could move her animals in with mine. I said no. So she said it was my fault even though I wasn't even around. When the police arrived they thought I was the attacker, since we were off the property and we had been moving all day I was in flannel shirt and jeans. She looked like a secretary, anyway they went to her aid all 4 of them. I questioned to my husband why they were not talking to me, but to her, when I was the one attacked. They heard me and told me to shut up or they would restrain me, I said I was just talking to my husband, so they all came over tried to handcuff me I pushed one away , they said I hit him I didn't. They bent my arms and fingers back making them black and blue, one put his foot on my head. I was left in a cop car for hours with the heat on and windows up. they totally ignored me and were laughing about it all. By this time there were 8 cops. My son was there and had to witness all this. My husband was afraid to say anything being raised in San Fran so he wimped out. For someone like me who has been abused by her father and having almost been raped and murdered. I felt extremely violated as if I had been raped. this time by those who were suppose to protect me.To this day I see nothing good that came out of that. I now have a small record, it was dropped down to disturbing the peace, which was not my fault at ALL. I couldn't get an attorney who would touch the case, four cops against me even though I had witnesses, they said I would lose. A few months later The same poilce department was in trouble for putting a gun to an innocent mans head, they roughed him up just like they did me. This was all on the news and even went to court ( the police won of course even though they were wrong ) I couldn't even get my story in the newspaper.

To tell you the truth the only thing I walked away with was I had more compassion for minorities ( I'm white ). Not only did this lady and her husband physically attack me I was then assulted by the cops right after. I had nightmares for up to a year or more after that. You don't think I questioned God and the total injustice of it all and why Did God allow me to go through yet more attacks for nothing I had done ? She attcked me lied and got away with it. Go figure ?
I am crying as i am reliving this story.

I have been told most Christians would have folded and quit if not KILLED themselve from what I have experenced in those 5 years. So instead of attacking the fact that I do not feel any QUILT for questioning God and even getting ANGRY for not understandiong him. Maybe you should be thankful. I have always been an upstanding citazine all my life, I have no other record but that. I have been told I have integraty and character by pastors and thier wives. I care about others and reach out to people all the time. I really try to do what right. And yet I becomes people easy target because of my trusting good nature. Like I said that was just one example.

So where would you say Joseph were my feelings of INJUSTICE suppose to go if not to GOD ?

[ September 05, 2005, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: RightFromWrong ]

 

[RightFromWrong]

WOW did I mess up with my spelling I was writing real fast and didn't recheck my work. Sorry

 

[Aaron]

RFW said:
I questioned to my husband why they were not talking to me, but to her, when I was the one attacked. They heard me and told me to shut up or they would restrain me, I said I was just talking to my husband, so they all came over tried to handcuff me I pushed one away, they said I hit him I didn't.

The police are pretty good at singling out the trouble makers. The more you write the more you reveal your angry and bitter attitude. I'll be you were the loudest one there.

 

[DHK]

"God is angry with the wicked every day."
"Be ye angry and sin not; let not the sun go down on your wrath."
Don't make friends with an angry man.
Are you angry?

One of the problems with this discussion is the need to come up with a reasonable definition of "angry." I don't believe that the definition of angry remains constant througout the Bible. The definition, as applied to God is different than applied to man. Otherwise we would be commanded not to make friends with God.
DHK

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
I can not figure how anyone can say I am mad at God at this point in my life. I never said I was. I said over 3 years ago I went through a 5 year period 1998-2003 where I would question God on and off. And yet I still remained FAITHFUL to his word, to his church ( at least 3 1/2 years worth ) to others, to my family, I NEVER sinned and am a better person for it if nothing else at least I am more compasionate.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I have read anywhere that anybody said you are currently mad at God. If you can find otherwise, please quote it.

Joesph I am going by these and other post you have made on how judgmental you can be. I think people can see from reading my post, I am not judgmental towards people ( not that I do not get frustrated with their bullheadness ) but I will stand up for the truth. And if you go back to my old post, you will see I DO answer you ![/QUOTE]

1. Disagreeing with you and pointing out doctrinal error on your part using the scripture to rebuke, correct is not being judgmental. It is being Biblical:

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

You and your pastor are teaching blasphemy if you think it is ok (or even righteous anger) to be angry at God. It may be common, and even a natural and expected response. But, it is in no way alright, and is sinful.

2.You are one of the most judgemental people I have met in a long while, and on top of that, you are very prideful and arrogant in your "compassion".

3.Teaching the truth of the Word of God, even though it may not always be pleasant, or "compassionate" as defined by the wisdom of this world, is not being bullheaded.

4. I think it would be wonderful if you stood up for the truth of Scripture. I would even applaud you if you did. Unfortunately, you have thus far refused to do so. That is sad.

5. You have not answered one single question I have asked. If you have, simply go back and find it, hit the quote button and prove me wrong.

Like I said before many people including my pastor get it and I know so do others on this board they have said so and I am sure many are afraid to say so. [/QUOTE]

1. You and your pastor are teaching blasphemy, and if this is what you "get", you should be concerned that perhaps it is not from God. Go read your Bible and see if Job "got it". He most certainly did get it with both barrels from God's rebuke of his anger, and he repented in ashes and dust.

2. If they are afraid to say so, that is their problem. If they don't want to debate and defend their views, then they should probably stay away from debate forums, which is what this is. There is no rational reason for them to be afraid of posting their opinions unless they cannot defend it from the Bible.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
Frogman wrote........I have been personally angry with God, while it is a sin, it is a human reaction that most who have suffered will experience. This does not justify it, but for those who do endure by God's Grace, it is the working of affliction that purge's them in order that they may bring forth more fruit.

That is the way I have come to view my own experience.

RIGHT on Frogman....Thats exactly right. Only those who have experenced anything like I have will understand.

I, too, also agree with Bro. Dallas that it is a sin to be angry with God. I am glad you agree with us.

Joesph....I am not talking about a once in awile trial I am talking NON stop 5 years worth.[/QUOTE]

I wonder how long Paul was in prison for preaching the cross of Christ singing praises to God and counting it all loss for the cause of Christ. Please don't think you are the only Christian who has suffered injustice. It still doesn't justify your anger against God no matter how long the injustice lasted or how bad it was.

Just one of many examples torwards the end of the 5 years, when we moved I was falsly arrested after the buyer of our house ATTACKED me physically beating me up along with her husband, because one of her goats died in a trailer, when the realitor said they could move her animals in with mine. I said no. So she said it was my fault even though I wasn't even around. When the police arrived they thought I was the attacker, since we were off the property and we had been moving all day I was in flannel shirt and jeans. She looked like a secretary, anyway they went to her aid all 4 of them. I questioned to my husband why they were not talking to me, but to her, when I was the one attacked. They heard me and told me to shut up or they would restrain me, I said I was just talking to my husband, so they all came over tried to handcuff me I pushed one away , they said I hit him I didn't.[/QUOTE]

1. I am guessing that we are hearing one side of the story so we'll just have to take your word for it. I am detecting, however, a bit of the ole "I'm the innocent martyr" complex coming from you.

2. I am also guessing that you now know that it is a very stupid thing to do to push a police officer when they are trying to hancuff you. I hope you learned your lesson here and won't repeat that mistake.

They bent my arms and fingers back making them black and blue, one put his foot on my head. I was left in a cop car for hours with the heat on and windows up. they totally ignored me and were laughing about it all. By this time there were 8 cops. My son was there and had to witness all this. My husband was afraid to say anything being raised in San Fran so he wimped out. For someone like me who has been abused by her father and having almost been raped and murdered. I felt extremely violated as if I had been raped. this time by those who were suppose to protect me.To this day I see nothing good that came out of that. I now have a small record, it was dropped down to disturbing the peace, which was not my fault at ALL. I couldn't get an attorney who would touch the case, four cops against me even though I had witnesses, they said I would lose. A few months later The same poilce department was in trouble for putting a gun to an innocent mans head, they roughed him up just like they did me. This was all on the news and even went to court ( the police won of course even though they were wrong ) I couldn't even get my story in the newspaper.

To tell you the truth the only thing I walked away with was I had more compassion for minorities ( I'm white ). Not only did this lady and her husband physically attack me I was then assulted by the cops right after. I had nightmares for up to a year or more after that. You don't think I questioned God and the total injustice of it all and why Did God allow me to go through yet more attacks for nothing I had done ? She attcked me lied and got away with it. Go figure ?
I am crying as i am reliving this story.

I have been told most Christians would have folded and quit if not KILLED themselve from what I have experenced in those 5 years. So instead of attacking the fact that I do not feel any QUILT for questioning God and even getting ANGRY for not understandiong him. Maybe you should be thankful. I have always been an upstanding citazine all my life, I have no other record but that. I have been told I have integraty and character by pastors and thier wives. I care about others and reach out to people all the time. I really try to do what right. And yet I becomes people easy target because of my trusting good nature. Like I said that was just one example.

So where would you say Joseph were my feelings of INJUSTICE suppose to go if not to GOD ? [/QUOTE]

1. Assuming your story is completely true, unbiased, and accurate account of what happened, I would say your feelings of injustice should have probably been directed at the woman and the cops who did you wrong, you husband who wimped out of his responsibilities to protect you, your father who abused you, and whomever it was who almost raped and murdered you. You have, however, no case to bring against God, and have absolutley no rational or Biblical justification
for being angry at him. It might well be a normal human reaction in our fallen state, but it is still sin. To state otherwise is blasphemy.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Aaron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />RFW said:
I questioned to my husband why they were not talking to me, but to her, when I was the one attacked. They heard me and told me to shut up or they would restrain me, I said I was just talking to my husband, so they all came over tried to handcuff me I pushed one away, they said I hit him I didn't.

The police are pretty good at singling out the trouble makers. The more you write the more you reveal your angry and bitter attitude. I'll be you were the loudest one there. </font>[/QUOTE]This may or may not be true, Aaron. We will never know, however, since we have basically heard one side of the story.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by DHK:
"God is angry with the wicked every day."
"Be ye angry and sin not; let not the sun go down on your wrath."
Don't make friends with an angry man.
Are you angry?

One of the problems with this discussion is the need to come up with a reasonable definition of "angry." I don't believe that the definition of angry remains constant througout the Bible. The definition, as applied to God is different than applied to man. Otherwise we would be commanded not to make friends with God.
DHK

This is true.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[RightFromWrong]

Here Joesph this is what you wrote to me. See I actually read what people write....

5. If you are angry at God about something, let me tell you that you have no good reason to be, your anger is not righteous, and you need to repent of your sin and rebellion.

6. I pray that God will open your heart to the truth of the Bible, and free you from your pride, arrogance, and anger.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
Here Joesph this is what you wrote to me. See I actually read what people write....

5. If you are angry at God about something, let me tell you that you have no good reason to be, your anger is not righteous, and you need to repent of your sin and rebellion.

6. I pray that God will open your heart to the truth of the Bible, and free you from your pride, arrogance, and anger.

Joseph Botwinick

The word "If" allows for the possibility, but doesn't necessarily state outright that you are. The context of my statement clearly shows that I did not state that you were mad at God. Next?

Joseph Botwinick

PS: Gotta go to bed now...good night and I will discuss this with you further tommorow night after I get home from work.

 

[RightFromWrong]

Aaron wrote ....quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RFW said:
I questioned to my husband why they were not talking to me, but to her, when I was the one attacked. They heard me and told me to shut up or they would restrain me, I said I was just talking to my husband, so they all came over tried to handcuff me I pushed one away, they said I hit him I didn't.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The police are pretty good at singling out the trouble makers. The more you write the more you reveal your angry and bitter attitude. I'll bet you were the loudest one there

yeah that was real nice Aaron I see your compassion shinning through again. NOT !

I guess you can't picture that I had just been physically attacked by two people one a man, because some ladies GOAT which she said was her child ( she had no real children and was an animal horder ) died in a trailer over night which I never knew or saw and she blamed me. You think I was as calm as a cucumber, yeah right. I tell you what though I never yelled or swore. Just complained. and since when is it against the law to complain. Oh yeah I guess if its SIN to be angry then its SIN to complain. Give me a break.

The dynamics are you have a Small town with a bunch of egocentric cops with nothing better to do but hassle innocent people to get their kicks and numbers. They did wrong and when they realized they had done wrong after talking to my husband and son, what were they going to do ? say they were wrong ? Yeah right.

The fact that they did this to other people in the town proved it. My friends husband is Black, she's white, she told me she was driving and the cops pulled her over, asked for her ID and her husbands ID, he said he didn't have to give them his ID since he wasn't driving so they PULLED him out of the car and assulted him, he did fight it and won since his sister worked at the court house. My husband grew up in San Fran and told me all kinds of stories about the way the cops throw their authority around. He has ALWAYS NOT trusted cops, I could never figure out why till it happened to me. I know there are good ones, but know I know there are alot of ones with BIG egos.

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Frogman:
Did John the Baptist question God?

Luke 7:18-22
Matthew 11:2-5

Does this mean it is justified?

Matthew 11:6
Luke 7:23

Bro. Dallas

Dear Brother Joseph,
This is a poor example. I cannot say that John was angry. However, as he was sitting in prison he was certainly having doubts concerning the one he declared the Lamb of God. This certainly was not of faith, thus, and maybe only inmho, this is an example of sin.

All I do know is that the more extreme the suffering, the more extreme the various emotions an individual will go through.

I believe the answer to the question of the post is that it is a sin to be angry with God. Still, I think it is a real emotional response of many who do experience things they cannot understand.

Brother Dallas

 

[RightFromWrong]

Joseph writes.....This may or may not be true, Aaron. We will never know, however, since we have basically heard one side of the story.

Joseph Botwinick

SEE it is comments just like this that hurt so deeply, I do not lie, I hate lying more than anyone. I have no reason to lie to you. I took a chance to share something personal and you ATTACKED me. It is Christians LIKE YOU who I asked God why do you allow them to be so mean.
Why God do you allow NON CHRISTIANS friends to be there for me, but I have to encounter judgemantal Chrisitans like this who haven't a clue on your love and mercy, who don't show your love but beat others when they are already down. Why God Why ? If only they knew your real Character, instead of picking and choosing the ones they want out of the Bible. So they may look good.

 

[Frogman]

Dear Sister,
Don't let the words of others hurt or discourage you.

When I was called to where I am at to pastor, my pastor and his wife and another pastor friend and his wife invited my family and me to dinner. During the dinner the two elder pastors encouraged me and advised me.

The one thing they told me to remember above all else is to let most of what is said to me go in one ear and out the other. To not view others talking in a circle only to break up when I arrive as necessarily discussing myself and above all to disregard words that have no purpose or use of edification. The necessary thing to remember is to disregard much of what is said by anyone.

Having said that, another pastor has told me most recently in regards to the following passage of Scripture:

Lu 16:9 (KJV) And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. {mammon: or, riches}

Sometimes when we do fail and those who do know God turn us out we do often find our greatest friends among the lost. More often than not these are those who are heirs of salvation but who have not yet been regenerated or converted to Christ.

Nevertheless, God is certainly able to move upon even reprobates to perform a service for His people.

My prayers are with you, may God bless you and your family very richly.

Bro. Dallas Eaton