Is it really SIN to be angry with God ?

[RightFromWrong]

Thank you Dallas, I needed that. It was exactly comments and attitudes like these that hurt more than anything, and caused me to question my God.

To make a long story short it all started with Controlling Jealous women and Pastors who listened to them and never dealt with their wrong doings, mainly because of their status in the church. And the Pastors temperment, they were non confrontational types.

Until in the second church it became the Pastors wife who was the next victim ( after we had left ) then the controling evil woman was kicked out of the church. The first church we found out later ( 2 years after we left that one ) that the troublemaker woman had a brain problem which caused her to have a totally different personality, she no longer was controlling and didn't attack anyone anymore. I had to find out 2 years later I wasn't the only one who had a problem with her.

I am a strong believer that there are people in all churches who really are not saved, who are there to test our faith. They may talk like a Christian but they are far from it. I had to learn this the hard way, 14 years after I was saved.

I can look back and see that God was using me to deal with certain people, that he was there in the long run. But when you are the one being hurt for no other reason than standing up for what you believe, like I am doing here. It hurts at the time, it is hard to see where Gods hand is in it all, and Like I said before somethings I will never understand. But I keep on trucking

It doesn't help that I am a women with more emotions and feeling and sensitive at that.
WOMEN ARE MORE RELATIONAL THAN MEN !

I am not a man like JOB, JESUS, DAVID, et. i am a woman.

 

[Frogman]

I fear that too many Christians are setting aside the true nature of repentance (Ps. 51:6) and opting for the 'turning' nature which is the conforming and renewing of our mind only.

The second or really as David states it in order is the first part (and so does Paul Romans 10:10)is that INWARD part being renewed. That is from the heart, that is in the seat of the will, the emotion, our feelings.

Too many fear the charismatic groups and are growing cold in both their public and private worship, unwilling to worship in Spirit (though remaining in truth, thus restricting themselves from the spirituality of Christianity in exchange for the rational intellectual reasoning of their mind.) This does not mean these are not really saved, but is inmho, speaking toward the love of many growing cold.

Anyway, the fact that you are a woman says volumes. We know women are to be silent in the church.

That the man is the head of the woman. That the woman is the weaker of the two.

At the same time, both scripture and history testify to the fact that when men do not heed to Christ as their head, oh well, that is another can of worms.

Bro. Dallas

 

[RightFromWrong]

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:

Sorry, I am sleepy.

But, I didn't mean to sound as if I justified an abusive spouse.

It is the silence of a woman in the church that is another can of worms.

May God Bless,
Bro. Dallas

 

[RightFromWrong]

Frogman thats the other thread on divorse.....
But, I didn't mean to sound as if I justified an abusive spouse

 

[Frogman]

Told ya I was

God Bless,
Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

My above post, regarding repentance states my opinion that many focus on the change of mind and fear the change of heart, the seat of our emotion, or our will.

I point out I believe this is due to our fear of the charimatic groups who focus on the spiritual side of repentance.

Anyway if you are still confused, go read the divorce thread, and I'll try to straighten this out tomorrow sometime if I can.

Every pastor I have been discussing with repentance with continually focus me toward the changed mind, omitting, inmho, the renewed heart, or the emotional portion of that inward man that is reborn.

I don't see how we can separate the emotion from a statement that we are to worship in Spirit and in truth.

How do we worship in Spirit, I know this is under the leadership of the Spirit, where does he lead us or bear witness with us? In our minds only, or also in our spirits?

Bro. Dallas

 

[RightFromWrong]

OH I see all I know is when I accepted Christ he changed my MIND, my EMOTIONS, my DESIRES, my WILL
Doesn't that happen to everyone ?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Frogman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:
Did John the Baptist question God?

Luke 7:18-22
Matthew 11:2-5

Does this mean it is justified?

Matthew 11:6
Luke 7:23

Bro. Dallas

Dear Brother Joseph,
This is a poor example. I cannot say that John was angry. However, as he was sitting in prison he was certainly having doubts concerning the one he declared the Lamb of God. This certainly was not of faith, thus, and maybe only inmho, this is an example of sin.

All I do know is that the more extreme the suffering, the more extreme the various emotions an individual will go through.

I believe the answer to the question of the post is that it is a sin to be angry with God. Still, I think it is a real emotional response of many who do experience things they cannot understand.

Brother Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]Bro. Dallas,

I agree that it is a common sin and that there is forgiveness for it through the grace of God.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
Joseph writes.....This may or may not be true, Aaron. We will never know, however, since we have basically heard one side of the story.

Joseph Botwinick

SEE it is comments just like this that hurt so deeply, I do not lie, I hate lying more than anyone. I have no reason to lie to you. I took a chance to share something personal and you ATTACKED me. It is Christians LIKE YOU who I asked God why do you allow them to be so mean.
Why God do you allow NON CHRISTIANS friends to be there for me, but I have to encounter judgemantal Chrisitans like this who haven't a clue on your love and mercy, who don't show your love but beat others when they are already down. Why God Why ? If only they knew your real Character, instead of picking and choosing the ones they want out of the Bible. So they may look good.

Stating the truth is not an attack. It is true that we heard one side of the story from someone who seems desperate (IMO) to justify herself and her sin by blaming everyone around her except herself. What you say might be 100% true...but then again, I don't really know you and have not heard both sides of the story. How am I supposed to know?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Frogman:
The necessary thing to remember is to disregard much of what is said by anyone.

Frog and RFW,

I would encourage you to not disregard what is being said when a brother is correcting blasphemous doctrine using scripture. You can do whatever you wish, but I do continue to pray for you that God will free you from your pride, arrogance, and your martyr complex.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Frogman]

Dear Joseph,
I do thank you for your prayers and I do need them as often as the Lord will burden your heart for me.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

Job 19:22 (KJV) Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?

This is an odd saying, isn't it?

May God bless us all with the truth so that if we are asked to go a mile with a brother or sister we shall go two.

Bro. Dallas

 

[RightFromWrong]

Joseph....You can quite calling me names now. I am not blasphmy, I am not arrogant, I am not saying I am a martyr et. You are extremely judgemental something you aught to ask God to free you from. I don't need prayers comming from someone like you, pray for yourself.

Answer me this ALL

If God is called our FATHER
wouldn't it make sense that as a FATHER we should be able to go to him with our pain, our questioning, our even being mad at him ?

According to scripture God is BETTER and GREATER and more LOVING, than any Father here on earth.MATT 7:11

Jesus said " If YOU then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your father who is in Heaven give what is good to those who ask him "

How many times have our children ( you may not understand this if you don't have children just think about when you were little )
Come to US and question our judgment, or complained to US and say hey that isn't fair ( they not seeing the whole picture ) or how about this one " I'm Mad at you " or "I hate you " Teenagers huh ?

Anyway my point is this. A loving parent would NEVER punish a child for sharing his TURE feelings no matter how WRONG those feelings are. Yes their perseption may be wrong and so is their attitude. But a LOVING parent is BIGGER than that, he sees where the child is comming from, doesn't take it PERSONALLY and tries to understand and HELP that child see the TRUTH and move on to MATURITY.

This is the bottom line of my arguement and I am RIGHT ! ( wish I had thought of this truth before, this truth dawned on me last night and is the crutch Of what I beleive to be true and so do most people)

GOD is greater, and bigger than our understanding, people need to quit being so quick to put God in little boxes.

Growing up I didn't have a good father figure. He sure wasn't great at giving gifts. He also wasn't great when it came to questioning him, he'd as soon knock your block off for daring to question his authority , and feelings, oh no ! don't share those you big baby !

So If I see God as a father I can complain to, question when I am confused and even shake my fist at once in awhile, then maybe I'm not the one with the problem. Maybe I'm the one who has the healthy relationship with my heavenly father, he isn't like earthy fathers HE UNDERSTANDS !

[ September 06, 2005, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: RightFromWrong ]

 

[Frogman]

The real necessary thing to realize here has already been stated in another post. That fact is that whether we share our feelings with God or not, He is always aware of those feelings. Whether we acknowledge our anger, or our doubts, or our questioning, God knows the truth of them being real. Our suffering continues, inmho, as long as we deny that anger thinking we are hiding it from God.

If this makes me arrogant and prideful with a martyr's attitude, then who am I?

Bro. Dallas

 

[RightFromWrong]

RIGHT ON Frogman I wrote that same truth in my beggining post of this thread, not sure what page that was.

You can't hide anything from God anyway, like you can your parents. So just be real. It isn't till we are real with God can we get true understanding so we can grow and move on. You can't get answers if you don't ask any questions.

If we say it is so wrong to question God or point our fingers at him. Then we remain in denial and just ACT like we are fine when in reality we are not. Lots of PHONEY Christians walking around with lots of hurt and pain. All because they are stuck. And why are they stuck because people like Aaron, Joseph, Art, are telling them they are sinning if they share their true feelings. Sad

 

[bapmom]

RFW,

dear, I do not think they said it was WRONG to share your feelings! You are taking their words and extrapolating alot from them that seems to me to be unfair.

If a person is angry at God they are wrong....they NEED to get that wrong taken care of! An excellent way to do that is to examine WHY they feel that anger and work through it Biblically and with a Godly counsellor.

Let me point out, that if you do not realize it is wrong than you will have a much harder time getting it taken care of. Why the fear to admit that it is wrong? Its ok! We are ALL wrong ALOT of the time!

Just accept it, tell God, ask Him to explain to you, or to help you see it.....what if God gives you the answer He gave Job? Would you accept it? Basically God's answer to Job was that God's ways are above man's, God made us, God made the entire UNIVERSE, and who are we that we would ask an explanation of Him? Thats GOD'S answer to Job.

Now, God did not say that Job had sinned, because Job had not spoken AGAINST God. Through all his trials he had accepted that God was in control. If you remain willing to realize that God is in control, and that God actually is not required to give us an explanation (although He might decide to give us understanding) than you will find that your anger will dissipate and you have let HIM handle it, in the right way.

 

[RightFromWrong]

You all need to get it through your thick heads. I am not angry at God I merley posted a question in regard to what my Pastor had said during a sermon. Having a pretty good understanding of the subject since I have personally studied it, I presented it.

I am now debating that question. It is not personal, I am not having any problems with God in my life or any other problems, but with you who do not get it.

This is a debate do not make it personal. I am RIGHT as I showed in my last post on my example of an earthly father and our Heavenly Father.
Try explaining that example away and you just may have a case. But you can't !

By the way BAPMOM according to Joseph_Botwinick
JOB DID SIN !

 

[RightFromWrong]

Bapmom I have already admitted that SELFISH anger IS wrong, righteous anger isn't wrong. righteous anger involves feelings of INJUSTICE.

Seperate the two and you just may get my point !


BE ANGRY, BUT IN YOUR ANGER DO NOT SIN !

 

[bapmom]

RFW,

If you are so convinced you are right, than what is the point of the debate?

Personally, I don't think you're really wrong....you just keep accusing people here of things like not having a very healthy relationship with our Heavenly Father, and so on.

Personally, when one of my kids is angry at me, we sit down and talk about it. Now, I do NOT allow my children to say mean and hateful things about the person they are angry at. There will be no yelling "I hate you" at others in this house. If it happens there will be a serious discussion of just what the cause of such anger could be, but ALSO there will be a discussion of how to PROPERLY express anger. I do not believe that "hate" should ever come out of your mouth in anger....it creates a barrier between the two people that could remain, if not forever, at least for a long time, and is very hard to overcome.
This does not mean I tell them to stuff their feelings away. No, Ive taught them, and still am teaching them, HOW to express their anger and upset in a calm manner without the need for mean words or name-calling.

THIS is my only point now. I DO get your point.....

However, you seem only to want to discuss this in order to "convince" people that you are right and they are all wrong.