Is it true that only the Pauline Epistles apply to us?

[kyredneck]

The book of Hebrews, according to John Piper, teaches that salvation will no more be available to the one who falls away. Do you agree with this view?

Go through the entire book, these 'falling away' are described as brethren, partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, received the knowledge of the truth, sanctified by the blood of the covenant, referred to as 'His people'. They entered not into His rest because of unbelief. Even Moses and Aaron were refused entrance into His rest because of their unbelief.

Check out chapter 10:

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10

These in chapter 10 had 'received the knowledge of the truth', were 'sanctified by the blood of the covenant', called 'His people'. It's not just 'any ol' sin' that's in view here, but a specific sin (returning to apostate Judaism) of which a specific people (professing Jewish Christians), of a specific time (the very generation that judged Christ to be worthy of death) were under pressure to do.

There was to be no repentance granted for those that fell away and returned back to that apostate system that killed Christ, because by returning they crucified the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame (Heb 6:4-6), but there was only a certain fearful expectation of judgment which would devour the adversaries before that generation passed away (Heb 10:37), for those that had trodden under foot the Son of God and counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and done despite unto the Spirit of grace (Heb 10:27-29) by falling away back to the apostate Judaism they been delivered from.

THAT is a very crucial message contained within the book, FOR ALL BELIEVERS.

 

[kyredneck]

At the very least care should be taken before adopting doctrine for the Church from the gospels.

24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

And the Book of Acts

The apostles themselves made a distinction between the message to the jews and the message to the Gentiles:

7 but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel of the circumcision
8 (for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles);
9 and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision; Gal 2

The audience of James and Cephas and John was of the old covenant of condemnation and death which was quickly coming to a violent end.

The audience of Paul was of the everlasting covenant of joy, peace, and righteousness to which there will be no end.

Again, care should be taken before adopting doctrine for the Church from the epistles of James and Cephas and John.

 

[canadyjd]

The apostles themselves made a distinction between the message to the jews and the message to the Gentiles:

7 but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel of the circumcision
8 (for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles);
9 and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision; Gal 2

The audience of James and Cephas and John was of the old covenant of condemnation and death which was quickly coming to a violent end.

The audience of Paul was of the everlasting covenant of joy, peace, and righteousness to which there will be no end.

Again, care should be taken before adopting doctrine for the Church from the epistles of James and Cephas and John.

I do not believe there is a separate gospel for Jews and a gospel for gentiles, if that is what you are saying.

Paul’s point in Galatians is that his Apostleship for the cause of Christ is in no way inferior to Peter’s Apostleship. God had commanded him to preach the gospel to Gentiles and Peter to preach that same gospel to Jews.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

I do not believe there is a separate gospel for Jews and a gospel for gentiles, if that is what you are saying.

peace to you

The audience of James and Cephas and John was of the old covenant of condemnation and death which was quickly coming to a violent end.

The audience of Paul was of the everlasting covenant of joy, peace, and righteousness to which there will be no end.

Again, care should be taken before adopting doctrine for the Church from the epistles of James and Cephas and John.

 

[Guido]

Here you need to understand that I believe repentance is an effect of God making us alive with Christ (Ephesians 2:1-10). Therefore the capacity to repent is never blocked for the one whom God has elected to save.

However, we all know church attenders who do all the traditional things that a church goer will do. They pray, they sing, they perform all the tasks, but God has never made them alive with Christ. They do all that they do in the power of the flesh, to feed their ego. They have never been crucified with Christ. It is this person whom God may harden and leave them with no capacity to repent, even though they are remorseful. It happened with Esau.
Guido, check your heart.

I think that -- either Hebrews is written to every Christian and pertains to temporal judgment, and in this age only is salvation secure; or Hebrews is written to believers living in the ages adjacent to the church age.

How can one be saved by holding fast to a false profession? How can one hold fast the beginning of the confidence firm unto the end, if at the first they have no confidence. Either they have faith or they don't.

If Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are not written for us, then neither is Hebrews through Revelation.

Also only the KJV is the Word of God in English. The other Bibles won't even say, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God." And they do not contain the word dispensation, neither say to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[Guido]

My theology is still malleable.

 

[canadyjd]

The audience of James and Cephas and John was of the old covenant of condemnation and death which was quickly coming to a violent end.

The audience of Paul was of the everlasting covenant of joy, peace, and righteousness to which there will be no end.

Again, care should be taken before adopting doctrine for the Church from the epistles of James and Cephas and John.

What doctrine, exactly, taught by James, Cephas and John epistles do not apply to the church.

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

I think that -- either Hebrews is written to every Christian and pertains to temporal judgment, and in this age only is salvation secure; or Hebrews is written to believers living in the ages adjacent to the church age.

How can one be saved by holding fast to a false profession? How can one hold fast the beginning of the confidence firm unto the end, if at the first they have no confidence. Either they have faith or they don't.

If Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are not written for us, then neither is Hebrews through Revelation.

Also only the KJV is the Word of God in English. The other Bibles won't even say, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God." And they do not contain the word dispensation, neither say to rightly divide the word of truth.

You think some terribly dogmatic thoughts that have no biblical support.

My theology is still malleable.

If so, then throw out dispensationalism and KJVO. Both have no merit in your theology.

 

[Guido]

You think some terribly dogmatic thoughts that have no biblical support.

If so, then throw out dispensationalism and KJVO. Both have no merit in your theology.

You think some terribly dogmatic thoughts that have no biblical support.

If so, then throw out dispensationalism and KJVO. Both have no merit in your theology.

I'll change my mind if you can adaquetly answer these three problems.

1. The problem where the title "morning star" or "day star" is used in both Isaiah 14, 1 or 2 Peter (not sure which) and Revelation 22.

2. The innacuracies in the modern text and attacks on Christ's deity, manhood, and eternal existence.

3. Missing words and whole verses.

 

[kyredneck]

What doctrine, exactly, taught by James, Cephas and John epistles do not apply to the church.

James:
8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Ja 5

Cephas:
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer: 1 Pet 4

John:
18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2

...to name a few.

 

[JesusFan]

James:
8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Ja 5

Cephas:
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer: 1 Pet 4

John:
18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2

...to name a few.

We have been in the last days and hours since the ascension though, and he is still right at the door to return even now!

 

[JesusFan]

What doctrine, exactly, taught by James, Cephas and John epistles do not apply to the church.

peace to you

ALL of the NT was inspired to us, not just selected books!

 

[Van]

I have watched the sermons of many pastors, hoping that one could make plain the warnings contained in the Book of Hebrews, but seeing that all discussions of the book are not consistent within, I settled on the one that says it's written for the saints in the tribulation.

If all scripture is profitable for instruction, that its applicability reaches from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[AustinC]

I'll change my mind if you can adaquetly answer these three problems.

1. The problem where the title "morning star" or "day star" is used in both Isaiah 14, 1 or 2 Peter (not sure which) and Revelation 22.

What problem do you imagine is there?

2. The innacuracies in the modern text and attacks on Christ's deity, manhood, and eternal existence.

What inaccuracies? Why do I care what atheist scholars think about Jesus? How does any of this make the modern dispensationalism movement relevant?

3. Missing words and whole verses.

You mean because we actually have more ancient texts that reveal parts of the Bible were added at a later date and weren't actually written by the original author? You mean to say that the ignorance of the King James translators should be...ignored and the documents that are closer to the original should also be ignored by newer translations?

Go ahead and die on that hill of ignorance if you wish.

 

[kyredneck]

What doctrine, exactly, taught by James, Cephas and John epistles do not apply to the church.

Perfect example of misapplication James, Cephas and John epistles:

We have been in the last days and hours since the ascension though, and he is still right at the door to return even now!

Not only is it wrong, it leads to disputing the plain language of Christ and the apostles.

 

[Guido]

What problem do you imagine is there?


What inaccuracies? Why do I care what atheist scholars think about Jesus? How does any of this make the modern dispensationalism movement relevant?

You mean because we actually have more ancient texts that reveal parts of the Bible were added at a later date and weren't actually written by the original author? You mean to say that the ignorance of the King James translators should be...ignored and the documents that are closer to the original should also be ignored by newer translations?

Go ahead and die on that hill of ignorance if you wish.

I already returned to believing that God's grace is freely available in every dispensation. My only problem is with what seems to be corruptions in the modern Bibles.

 

[AustinC]

I already returned to believing that God's grace is freely available in every dispensation. My only problem is with what seems to be corruptions in the modern Bibles.

Show me explicit evidence of dispensations as they relate to God's saving grace? You cannot find them in scripture. They are man-made ideas from people who are artificially chopping up the Bible like an amateur butcher cuts up a side of beef.
Such hacking has done great harm to the church.

 

[percho]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;


Does the WORD, GOD, tell us what we need to do?

Does the WORD, GOD, tell what GOD, has, is and will do for us?

and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

That is the law of sin and death. One little thing of which Adam was unable to do. Why? Was it because he was created of flesh?

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Question; You, who were begotten of the flesh of your father and mother, Is it that gift of the Holy Spirit that begets you of the Spirit? Why do you begotten of the flesh of your father and mother think you can do something Adam wasn't able to do. Are you begotten of the flesh able to repent or does God grant repentance to you because of what he has done through the Word made flesh, then calls you and gives you the gift of the Holy Spirit?

And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous, and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, Gal 3:21-23 YLT What is that speaking of? What, takes one from being under the law, the schoolmaster, to being under grace? Is it not the death and thus the resurrection of Jesus, the Word made flesh?

Gal 3:2 YLT this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith? (Or out of hearing of faith)
Does not 3:14 YLT same then same?
that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith. (Through the death of the Word made flesh and thus the resurrection out of the dead?)

I believe the total of the word of God is for us to know and understand what God does.

IMHO there not two births because of what Adam did but because the plan of God, before the foundation of the world, was to create man in his own image, yet of flesh and then when the devil, Satan, destroyed that in the flesh through the first man Adam, God would re-birth man in Spirit thus redeeming man and destroying the devil and his works.

This would be done through the Son of God manifested in flesh, death and regeneration.

All the word applies to us.

 

[Guido]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;


Does the WORD, GOD, tell us what we need to do?

Does the WORD, GOD, tell what GOD, has, is and will do for us?

and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

That is the law of sin and death. One little thing of which Adam was unable to do. Why? Was it because he was created of flesh?

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Question; You, who were begotten of the flesh of your father and mother, Is it that gift of the Holy Spirit that begets you of the Spirit? Why do you begotten of the flesh of your father and mother think you can do something Adam wasn't able to do. Are you begotten of the flesh able to repent or does God grant repentance to you because of what he has done through the Word made flesh, then calls you and gives you the gift of the Holy Spirit?

And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous, and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, Gal 3:21-23 YLT What is that speaking of? What, takes one from being under the law, the schoolmaster, to being under grace? Is it not the death and thus the resurrection of Jesus, the Word made flesh?

Gal 3:2 YLT this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith? (Or out of hearing of faith)
Does not 3:14 YLT same then same?
that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith. (Through the death of the Word made flesh and thus the resurrection out of the dead?)

I believe the total of the word of God is for us to know and understand what God does.

IMHO there not two births because of what Adam did but because the plan of God, before the foundation of the world, was to create man in his own image, yet of flesh and then when the devil, Satan, destroyed that in the flesh through the first man Adam, God would re-birth man in Spirit thus redeeming man and destroying the devil and his works.

This would be done through the Son of God manifested in flesh, death and regeneration.

All the word applies to us.

I already went back to believing it all applies to us.

 

[JesusFan]

Perfect example of misapplication James, Cephas and John epistles:



Not only is it wrong, it leads to disputing the plain language of Christ and the apostles.

So they do not apply to you then?