Is John McCarthur a Calvinist?

[Luke2427]

See, this is the problem with a lot of Calvanists: They think they are on some higher spiritual intelligence plane. You need to read the OP and think about it and maybe you will find out you don't know it all.

My post is not talking about what I know. it is talking about what you obviously DON'T know.

It is not exalting my knowledge. It is rebuking your lack if it.

That does not make me a know it all- at all.

It purports that you don't enough to speak intelligently on this subject.

That fact still stands no matter how many times I read the OP.

You have to ask if someone is a Calvinist because they say something that MILLIONS of Calvinists- perhaps HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of Calvinists have believed spanning a period of about FIVE HUNDRED YEARS.

And it is not the ASKING that is the problem. That is a noble gesture.

It is the preaching you do after asking while not knowing something you should know before you preach on it.

 

[Bronconagurski]

My post is not talking about what I know. it is talking about what you obviously DON'T know.

It is not exalting my knowledge. It is rebuking your lack if it.

That does not make me a know it all- at all.

It purports that you don't enough to speak intelligently on this subject.

That fact still stands no matter how many times I read the OP.

You have to ask if someone is a Calvinist because they say something that MILLIONS of Calvinists- perhaps HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of Calvinists have believed spanning a period of about FIVE HUNDRED YEARS.

And it is not the ASKING that is the problem. That is a noble gesture.

It is the preaching you do after asking while not knowing something you should know before you preach on it.

Well why don't you explain where I went wrong instead of just running your mouth? I have yet to hear why I am wrong. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Furthermore, just because you have believed false teaching that has been going on for years doesn't mean that I don't have a point. You can no more prove all the tenets of Calvanism than I can prove there is a man in the moon. I guess it never occurred to you that you are the ignorant one. Thus, my assertion of your arrogance stands. And you are right hateful about it as well.

Let me recap what I believe. MacArthur said God wants all men to be saved. I agree. He then says that God is not to blame for man's unbelief. I agree with that. He then asserts that man rejects God. I agree. What he doesn't say and where most Calvanists go wrong is that God only wants certain people to get saved and calls only those men to salvation. I am saying that is hypocritical, and you can't have it both ways. God either wants all men to be saved or he doesn't. If He does, and His will is never thwarted, then all men should be saved, but they are not. The fact that you can't get around is that God calls all men to salvation by the word of God and the Holy Spirit, but some men reject God. If men can reject God, they can accept Him by the power of the Holy Spirit. I have seen men under conviction reject God. I have seen others under conviction accept Him. So, yes, no one would be saved without the Holy Spirit wooing, but you can't deny that the scripture tells us to not quench the Spirit. Now if irrestible grace is true, then there would be no need for that admonition.

 

[Iconoclast]

Bronconagurski

Well why don't you explain where I went wrong

Let me recap what I believe.

MacArthur said God wants all men to be saved. I agree.

he qualified his statement speaking about God's will of purpose.In other words...Jm is saying God will not keep anyone from being saved.....it would not bother him if all men wanted salvation.
However if you press Jm he will admit freely that God has ...NOT ..purposed to save all men. I have heard him preach this correctly many times.

He then says that God is not to blame for man's unbelief. I agree with that. He then asserts that man rejects God. I agree.

agreed:thumbs:

What he doesn't say and where most Calvanists go wrong is that God only wants certain people to get saved and calls only those men to salvation. I am saying that is hypocritical, and you can't have it both ways.

This is actually where you are drifting, or not clear.

is that God only wants certain people to get saved and calls only those men to salvation.

God has purposed to save a multitude of people out of all of fallen mankind.he has not purposed to save all men. What ever God purposes...His decree, His will of decree, His eternal purpose....always comes to pass exactly:

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

This is where Calvinists start. We believe this in reference to God's elective purposes also......Do You?

God either wants all men to be saved or he doesn't. If He does, and His will is never thwarted, then all men should be saved, but they are not.

Exactly BSKI.....agreed....so the question here about what God wills, by Decree comes into the spotlight.Remember how I said JM qualified his statement about God's will of purpose...well here it is!

You answer your own question in the bolded portion..This tells us how we must understand the statement....because neither of us are universalists:thumbs: Do you see it...just pause here and continue to follow out your own thought.

The fact that you can't get around is that God calls all men to salvation by the word of God and the Holy Spirit, but some men reject God

.

we do not have to get around it...we just understand that no man seeks God, no not one.They all reject God and his word:thumbs: So when someone gets saved and is enabled to believe...we know...God has effectually drawn them....in such a way...that they will not ultimately resist, but rather will be made willing..psalm110;3

10 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

this psalm is quoted at least 6 times in the NT.....for good reason:thumbs:
If men can reject God, they can accept Him by the power of the Holy Spirit. I have seen men under conviction reject God. I have seen others under conviction accept Him. So, yes, no one would be saved without the Holy Spirit wooing,

but you can't deny that the scripture tells us to not quench the Spirit. Now if irrestible grace is true, then there would be no need for that admonition.

This verse about quenching the Spirit...is only to those who have the Spirit, that is to say already christians...only christians can , quench , or grieve the Spirit.

Now if irrestible grace is true, then there would be no need for that admonition

irrestibale grace is true of all who become saved...Jesus does not just seek His sheep, He seeks and SAVES...all of them Jn 6:37-44

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Hello bski

 

[Skandelon]

it is the same all.

God considers not just Gentiles to be disobedient but Israel as well.

The all does not refer to individuals here- it refers to races of mankind.

But that ALL are sinners in an "every individual" sense is clear from earlier chapters with which we are all familiar.

Awww, so you are willing to read Romans 9-11 from a 'corporate' perspective? Good, now take that same method and apply it to your interpretation of Romans 9.

But, even I affirm along with many Calvinists that nations are made up of individuals. So, if God bound all over to disobedience, how can that not mean every individual? You don't believe every individual has been bound? The point is that every individual who has been bound are also shown mercy. To interpret this passage to mean that God bounds all men over to disobedience (i.e. Original Sin), but preselects some to show mercy, is clearly unfounded. The POINT is that God's hardening/cutting off is for the purpose of showing mercy. He has bound the Gentiles (made of up of individuals) and Jews (made up of individuals). Why? So as to show them ALL mercy...not "so as to show a preselected number mercy."

 

[Luke2427]

Awww, so you are willing to read Romans 9-11 from a 'corporate' perspective? Good, now take that same method and apply it to your interpretation of Romans 9.

But, even I affirm along with many Calvinists that nations are made up of individuals. So, if God bound all over to disobedience, how can that not mean every individual? You don't believe every individual has been bound? The point is that every individual who has been bound are also shown mercy. To interpret this passage to mean that God bounds all men over to disobedience (i.e. Original Sin), but preselects some to show mercy, is clearly unfounded. The POINT is that God's hardening/cutting off is for the purpose of showing mercy. He has bound the Gentiles (made of up of individuals) and Jews (made up of individuals). Why? So as to show them ALL mercy...not "so as to show a preselected number mercy."

It's a good argument, Skandelon- as I expect from you.

I have an answer for it that I will get to shortly.

But I wish you would take this skill demonstrated here whereby you faithfully handle the Scripture and correct the error of Van and Winman.

I KNOW that you know that many of the things they say from the Scripture is ABSOLUTELY BOGUS and HORRIFIC HERMENEUTICS.

I KNOW it because you do the opposite of what they do.

They are not helping your side by representing your side as dumb or Pelagian.

 

[psalms109:31]

Quicken

Wrong thread

 

[Skandelon]

It's a good argument, Skandelon- as I expect from you.

I have an answer for it that I will get to shortly.

Thank you and I look forward to it...

But I wish you would take this skill demonstrated here whereby you faithfully handle the Scripture and correct the error of Van and Winman.

I barely have the time when I come here to engage the discussions I've already started. I really don't feel like wading through every other posters responses and correcting their nuanced views. And to be fair, I don't expect you to do so with Icon, Aaron, JesusFan or the other Calvinists who clearly don't agree with you on every point. I haven't seen you take on Jhb and his infralapsarianism, yet, for example.

However, you can ask Winman and Van and they'll be the first to tell you that I have openly expressed my disagreement with them on several points. I have to elect which posts I will address and you of all people should understand that.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well why don't you explain where I went wrong instead of just running your mouth? I have yet to hear why I am wrong. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Furthermore, just because you have believed false teaching that has been going on for years doesn't mean that I don't have a point. You can no more prove all the tenets of Calvanism than I can prove there is a man in the moon. I guess it never occurred to you that you are the ignorant one. Thus, my assertion of your arrogance stands. And you are right hateful about it as well.

Let me recap what I believe. MacArthur said God wants all men to be saved. I agree. He then says that God is not to blame for man's unbelief. I agree with that. He then asserts that man rejects God. I agree. What he doesn't say and where most Calvanists go wrong is that God only wants certain people to get saved and calls only those men to salvation. I am saying that is hypocritical, and you can't have it both ways. God either wants all men to be saved or he doesn't. If He does, and His will is never thwarted, then all men should be saved, but they are not. The fact that you can't get around is that God calls all men to salvation by the word of God and the Holy Spirit, but some men reject God. If men can reject God, they can accept Him by the power of the Holy Spirit. I have seen men under conviction reject God. I have seen others under conviction accept Him. So, yes, no one would be saved without the Holy Spirit wooing, but you can't deny that the scripture tells us to not quench the Spirit. Now if irrestible grace is true, then there would be no need for that admonition.

is it wrong to have the lord to make the decisions in salvation? would he do betetr at deciding the right way to go than leaving it up to sinners like us?

 

[plain_n_simple]

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Yeshua1]

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

indeed, all those whom have been chosen in Christ will have Eternal Life!