Originally posted by John of Japan:
Originally posted by ituttut:
What is Lordship salvation. Paul tells us in the first chapter of every Epistle he writes to the Gentile – ”Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ we are saved by the Grace of God. We go to the Father through our Lord. There is no other way to salvation.
Christian faith, ituttut
Hi, ituttut. Now your name, I'm puzzled by. Do you tut tut at people or are you descended from King Tut? But no doubt there is a deeper meaning!
Much deeper. Some here, and on other boards by private message have asked. It is an acronym for spreading the Word of God, by the “grace commission”. I Tell U Truth Then U Tell.
I did carefully read your post on page 3, and this one, and I believe we are in agreement. I'm still trying to digest everything, and it is flying so fast I'm not keeping up. For sure, thanks for pointing out the Bib Sac article from 1986. I looked it up on my Theological Journal disk, and plan to read it all.
Thanks for reading and have noticed we are not too far apart in some things.
One thing I have learned from this discussion is that there may be as many definitions of LS as there are people on the Baptist Board!! As MikeinGhana wrote on page 3, there is an area of semantics here. Some of you are hearing me say something I'm not meaning, and vice versa all around!
I heard your question and tried to answer, but am not doing too well. I’ll try another route via the Gospel of John, and the Epistles to the Gentile of Paul. Lordship worship cannot be proved error by using Acts 2 salvation for the Jew.
As you may have noticed in almost all my posts I try to stress the gospel of Christ from heaven, which until seen is hard to take, and foreign to what we have been taught through the years. It is not all that different from what all we Baptist and a few others believe. It scares people; it did me when I saw it. I believe like most Baptists, but without knowing they insist the Christian has to do something to stay in good standing. I believe this is what Lordship worship does. But it is understood that He is our Lord Jesus Christ.
As disciples of Jesus Christ we must decide what gospel we are to follow. Do we follow that of John the Baptist which John, Jesus, Peter, and the others preached to their brethren, or do we follow the gospel of Paul, which Christ from heaven gave to Paul for we Gentiles?
It is in the secret that applies to us. Where can the Gentile and the Jew today find what is the gospel, and explain it to us? Most find this gospel in the Gospel of John, which is not the first writings of what Jesus said of things that today apply to us.
John is plain to us and then we come to Paul. How do we know Paul knows what he is talking about? When did he know and who told him. Luke tells us in Acts, with confirmation of Ananias, and Paul tells us in his Epistles. If we don’t believe him, there are two earthly Apostles that will prove us wrong. Peter says in his second Epistle, the latter part of verse 3, that we had better listen to him.
The other? The Apostle John that was allowed to linger. Usually the first gospel children can understand is in the gospel of John. I notice you understood at the early age of 4. I was 5 years behind you being saved at the age of 9. John 3:16 is worded for the young to come. Can we read John and not believe the gospel of Paul? This wording should be “Can we read Paul and not believe the gospel of John.”
John’s gospel is of Paul’s, written circa 30 years after Paul’s death. The words John speaks are the words of Jesus, but we know not one person had any idea of what Jesus was talking about while he was on earth. Scripture soundly affirms this. John was only allowed to write his Books after the death of Paul, and after the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Peter and John attest to the wisdom Christ revealed to Paul. It is in Paul that we grow
The article ituttut mentioned, by Livingston Blauvelt, Jr., has this definition of LS: "What is lordship salvation? This is the view that for salvation a person must trust Jesus Christ as his Savior from sin and must also commit himself to Christ as Lord of his life, submitting to His sovereign authority" (p. 37). This is exactly the definition I have given it since I first heard Ten Pas teaching in 1972.
The article goes on to say, "This teaching is false because it subtly adds works to the clear and simple condition for salvation set forth in the Word of God. An unbeliever, to avail himself of the salvation offered in Christ, must only accept Him as his own personal Savior, believing that His death for sin on the cross was final and sufficient forever. This is not to minimize the importance of urging a soon committal to the sovereign authority of Jesus Christ. Of course it is recognized that many people may 'say' they have faith (James 2:14) but have no genuine conversion. Mere verbal assent or mental acquiescence to the fact of Christ’s death, without any conviction of personal sin, is inadequate. That kind of so-called faith is pious pretense" (ibid).
I agree with this assessment by Blauvelt. Bedtime approaches here in Japan. I wish you all a fond, "Oyasumi nasai," rest well.
Back to your question of “Is there really such thing as Lordship Salvation?”. John 3:16-18 is a good way to disprove for we read
”For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
It is God that saves; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and through Christ Jesus our sins are forgiven? We have God’s salvation through The Son, Jesus Christ. Many Baptists are Calvinistic (Calvinist & Armenian) finding they are to hold on, retaining their salvation, or the need to persevere. This can be found in Lordship worship.
Christian faith, ituttut
