Is lying ever good?

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Wait, If you tell a lie you will end up in hell?




While not a good thing Peter did, I have not heard anybody say he will be in hell.

Peter repented. Don't you guys read your Bibles? or should I say Don't you ever read the Bible in the correct context?

 

[webdog]

The Scripture clearly says, 'And call Jesse to the sacrifice.' There was a sacrifice. God intended one to be given at that time. Just because 1 Samuel does not record when exactly that sacrifice happened does not mean God told Samuel to lie.

Scripture doesn't say there ever was a sacrifice, you have to read that into the text. In the same sense the story was fabricated that they were going to a sacrifice, the same fabricated story had Jesse called to attend this so-called sacrifice.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

God did not say it was a so-called sacrifice, He said it was a sacrifice.

Samuel called the elders of the town to the sacrifice as well.

Samuel left without the bull and went to Ramah. Why did Samuel leave without the bull? Because it had been sacrificed.

 

[menageriekeeper]

You can't say Rahab repented, what happened to her?

Esther didn't lie, she just failed to include in her invitations that she was Jewish. The king shoulda known already who/what he was marrying, but he was to busy playing king to worry about more than whether or not she had a pretty face.

I thinketh the difference between a "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" type lie and a lie such as Rahab's is the harm the lie could potentially bring. It isn't going harm my husband if I tell him I like his blue truck when I'd rather he'd have bought a black one. It's certainly not going to hurt him if he tells me I look fine in a dress I think make me look fat. It didn't harm the soldiers who came looking for the spies when Rahab sent them all the way down to the river looking for guys that were hidden on her roof.

However, if I tell my neighbor I saw her husband with another woman and it is not true or I don't clarify that I saw him at church talking to the children's church leader while picking up their daughter, THAT is going to cause real harm.

Christ said love God and love thy neighbor as yourself on those two hang the law. That gives us a pretty good idea of how to determine the appropriate use of deception/lies and the inappropriate use of bearing false witness.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

There is absolutely no way you can argue that there are not examples of God's people lying and God using it for His glory.

Why can't we just let God be God and quit trying to put Him in our own little theological boxes?

It is almost comical, but in reality it is quite sad, to see some make huge exegetical leaps to try and justify the fact that they cannot let God be God and let His Word stand even when it may not make sense completely to us and our human minds.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

There is absolutely no Scripture to show that God ever told any of His people to tell a lie.

To claim that He has no problem with His children lying is a lie itself.

 

[DeeJay]

Peter repented. Don't you guys read your Bibles? or should I say Don't you ever read the Bible in the correct context?

So I take it you dont believe in OSAS. Or was Peter not saved until later?

 

[PastorSBC1303]

There is absolutely no Scripture to show that God ever told any of His people to tell a lie.

To claim that He has no problem with His children lying is a lie itself.

Explain to me 1 Kings 22:19-23. Specifically v. 22-23 "'By what means?' the Lord asked. 'I will go out and by a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the Lord. 'Go and do it.' So now the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you."

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

1 Kings 22:21 (KJV) And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1 Kings 22:22 (KJV) And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1 Kings 22:23 (KJV) Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

The lying spirit was not put in the mouths of God's people, but in the mouths of Ahab's prophets. These were not prophets who were of God, but Ahab's prophets.

My assertion that God does not tell His people to lie stands.

 

[npetreley]

There is absolutely no way you can argue that there are not examples of God's people lying and God using it for His glory.

Why can't we just let God be God and quit trying to put Him in our own little theological boxes?

It is almost comical, but in reality it is quite sad, to see some make huge exegetical leaps to try and justify the fact that they cannot let God be God and let His Word stand even when it may not make sense completely to us and our human minds.

Amen x 10^20

 

[PastorSBC1303]

The lying spirit was not put in the mouths of God's people, but in the mouths of Ahab's prophets. These were not prophets who were of God, but Ahab's prophets.

My assertion that God does not tell His people to lie stands.

More exegetical hoops to jump thru to try and justify Your theology, not the testimony of God's Word.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

God's Word clearly shows they were Ahab's prophets. I have not misquoted anything, nor twisted it to mean something it does not mean.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I thinketh the difference between a "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" type lie and a lie such as Rahab's is the harm the lie could potentially bring. It isn't going harm my husband if I tell him I like his blue truck when I'd rather he'd have bought a black one. It's certainly not going to hurt him if he tells me I look fine in a dress I think make me look fat. It didn't harm the soldiers who came looking for the spies when Rahab sent them all the way down to the river looking for guys that were hidden on her roof.

However, if I tell my neighbor I saw her husband with another woman and it is not true or I don't clarify that I saw him at church talking to the children's church leader while picking up their daughter, THAT is going to cause real harm.

It took me a minute to figure it out, but I used the correct event with the wrong name in my haste to head out to work.

But, Menagerie hit the nail square on the head here with my intent in asking the question, "What is 'bearing false witness'"?

If you tell the ugliest girl you've ever seen that she's pretty, I doubt seriously that you'll be in big trouble over it.

But, if you cry "rape!" just to get attention, I think you'll have to answer for it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

a lie is a lie is a lie.

Revelation 21:27 (KJV) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Cut and dried. There are no little lies overlooked, no white lies overlooked, whatsoever is all inclusive. Shall in no wise is final.

 

[Alcott]

Then Yes or No: Is Rahab's name written in the Lamb's Book of Life?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Joshua 6:17 17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.

KJV Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

KJV James 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Rahab and all that were in her house was spared death on that day when the city was destroyed.

Again, Scripture nowhere tells God's people to lie. Why do you people try to justify sin by reason of the Word of God? There is no justification for sin, only judgment.

Rahab hid the spies. She wrongfully lied to those looking for them. If they were in God's will coming to her house, God would certainly have protected them without man's lying.

In answer to your question, Alcott...

Nowhere in Scripture can I find that her name was written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Certainly she is mentioned in the Great Hall of Faith, but Scripture does not say she is in the Lamb's Book of Life.

 

[Alcott]

Nowhere in Scripture can I find that her name was written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Certainly she is mentioned in the Great Hall of Faith, but Scripture does not say she is in the Lamb's Book of Life.

As expected, you defied the request to answer Yes or No, but now you're written something that may pose a new dilemma. Does the scripture name anyone as being recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life? Not that I remember, offhand here. I suspect you worded your answer vaguely so you could say, if asked, that you are not claiming anyone mentioned in the 'hall of faith' in Hebrews may not be in the B of L, ultimately meaning the kingdom to come. Else, you be saying Enoch, Sarah, Joseph, Gideon, et al, may have no place in the Kingdom.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I cannot answer Yes or No to the question. And neither can you. That is why I said nowhere in Scripture can we find her name there.

 

[rbell]

I believe that HBSMN has stated before that if a person dies with a single unconfessed sin anywhere in his/her life, that person goes to hell.

That "creative" definition of grace is pertinent to this conversation.

 

[Amy.G]

KJV James 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

If Rahab was justified, why wouldn't she be in the lambs book of life?