Is Open Theism a heresy then?

[JesusFan]

No, Classic Arminianism affirms God is omniscient and the direct cause of salvation.

Unlike Calvinism, Arminianism believes that divine omniscience is an attribute of God (not that God predestined all so He knows all). But Classic Arminianism believes that the only way nan can come to God is that God draw that man to Himself.

Read the Five Articles (that 8s Clasdic Arminianism).

They also hold that God saves based upon his foreknowledge of what they will choose to do

 

[JonC]

They also hold that God saves based upon his foreknowledge of what they will choose to do

Kinda. What you are missing is that they believe man can always reject God. The fireknowkedge is knowing who will reject God and who will not. Your statement earlier was wrong in that it twisted Classic Arminianism to fit your argument.

 

[JesusFan]

Kinda. What you are missing is that they believe man can always reject God. The fireknowkedge is knowing who will reject God and who will not. Your statement earlier was wrong in that it twisted Classic Arminianism to fit your argument.

They would state though that God could not be positive as to who would get saved until they decided to get saved

 

[JonC]

They would state though that God could not be positive as to who would get saved until they decided to get saved

No, because they believe in divine omniscience.

From their Articles:

That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ his Son, before the foundation of the world, hath determined, out of the fallen, sinful race of men, to save in Christ, for Christ’s sake, and through Christ, those who, through the grace of the Holy Ghost, shall believe on this his son Jesus, and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end; and, on the other hand, to leave the incorrigible and unbelieving in sin and under wrath, and to condemn them as alienate from Christ . . .

. . . That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will, inasmuch as he, in the state of apostasy and sin, can of and by himself neither think, will, nor do any thing that is truly good (such as saving faith eminently is); but that it is needful that he be born again of God in Christ, through his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, or will, and all his powers, in order that he may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the Word of Christ, John 15:5, “Without me ye can do nothing.”

 

[Van]

Open theism says everything is not predestined. Those that believe unbiblically that God knows everything imaginable, claim that this Open Theism biblical view is heresy. But they have never studied the topic. When asked why scripture says things happen by chance, they change the subject.

Has anyone posting of this thread cited the verses that proclaim things happen by chance? Why not as those verses were seem to be germane to the discussion? Could it be that those opposing Open Theism do not even know how to find the verses that say "things happen by chance?" I think the answer might be yes!

I again saw under the sun that the race is not to the swift and the battle is not to the warriors, and neither is bread to the wise nor wealth to the discerning, nor favor to the skillful; for time and chance overtake them all.​

 

[JesusFan]

Open theism says everything is not predestined. Those that believe unbiblically that God knows everything imaginable, claim that this Open Theism biblical view is heresy. But they have never studied the topic. When asked why scripture says things happen by chance, they change the subject.

Has anyone posting of this thread cited the verses that proclaim things happen by chance? Why not as those verses were seem to be germane to the discussion? Could it be that those opposing Open Theism do not even know how to find the verses that say "things happen by chance?" I think the answer might be yes!

​

I again saw under the sun that the race is not to the swift and the battle is not to the warriors, and neither is bread to the wise nor wealth to the discerning, nor favor to the skillful; for time and chance overtake them all.​

Your are quoting the viewpoint of how the unsaved and lost see things, as they do not account for God in their lives , as much of that book is giving to us how the unsaved view life in general, not a text for seeing how we should view God

 

[JesusFan]

No, because they believe in divine omniscience.

From their Articles:

That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ his Son, before the foundation of the world, hath determined, out of the fallen, sinful race of men, to save in Christ, for Christ’s sake, and through Christ, those who, through the grace of the Holy Ghost, shall believe on this his son Jesus, and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end; and, on the other hand, to leave the incorrigible and unbelieving in sin and under wrath, and to condemn them as alienate from Christ . . .

. . . That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will, inasmuch as he, in the state of apostasy and sin, can of and by himself neither think, will, nor do any thing that is truly good (such as saving faith eminently is); but that it is needful that he be born again of God in Christ, through his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, or will, and all his powers, in order that he may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the Word of Christ, John 15:5, “Without me ye can do nothing.”

Open theism is a theological view, primarily Christian, that asserts God does not have exhaustive knowledge of all future events, particularly those dependent on human free will, because the future is genuinely open to possibilities rather than being predetermined. This "open" nature of God allows for authentic human freedom, genuine prayer, and God's responsive actions, contrasting with classical theism's concept of a fully settled future and God's comprehensive foreknowledge.

 

[JonC]

Open theism is a theological view, primarily Christian, that asserts God does not have exhaustive knowledge of all future events, particularly those dependent on human free will, because the future is genuinely open to possibilities rather than being predetermined. This "open" nature of God allows for authentic human freedom, genuine prayer, and God's responsive actions, contrasting with classical theism's concept of a fully settled future and God's comprehensive foreknowledge.

But Clasdoc Arminism is 3xactky the opposite- it holds that God knows the events contengent on human free-will.

Calvinism, on the other hand, dismisses omniscience entirely - God knows because He decreed it.

 

[JesusFan]

But Clasdoc Arminism is 3xactky the opposite- it holds that God knows the events contengent on human free-will.

Calvinism, on the other hand, dismisses omniscience entirely - God knows because He decreed it.

We would not hold to God being the direct cause of all that happens though, as that would be fatalism

 

[JonC]

We would not hold to God being the direct cause of all that happens though, as that would be fatalism

But the topic (omniscience vs decree vs reaction) applies to salvation.

Nobody, that I know of anyway, is asking "did God make that squirrel run out in front of my car?" as a question of theological significance.

 

[Van]

Your are quoting the viewpoint of how the unsaved and lost see things, as they do not account for God in their lives , as much of that book is giving to us how the unsaved view life in general, not a text for seeing how we should view God

Now we are supposed to believe JesusFan does not recognize scripture, so he asked if the word of God is of human origin. I kid you not.

 

[Marooncat79]

SMH. Lol

 

[Van]

Yes, most should shake their heads and laugh out loud at the posts indicating biblical illiteracy, saying scripture does not say things happen by chance.