I gave you the two verses that I know of telling us what changed. What verse are you reference in terms of Adam's nature itself changing?
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Is Original Sin Doctrine Found in Bible?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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What quote from Edwards are you referencing in terms of Adam's nature changing from a "perfect human nature" to a "sin nature"? I see where Edwards (rightly) discusses men being enemies of God because man worships idols (if not God, men always worship some god). But I do not know what exactly you are referencing with your claim that Jonathan Edwards was writing about imputed sin (actually, many places it seems quite the opposite).
Please provide the Edwards reference along with the Scripture you believe corresponds with the quote.
Thanks.
Adam did not know the difference between good and evil, did not have a self will, as was fully obedient to God, right?
He was pointing out to us that our very nature is to be in a state when we well refuse to heed and obey God! So we recreate a God in our own image to worship, as we are really worshiping ourselves by that!
Look, Y1, I've been reading your opinions on what you believe God should have had written in Scripture and what you believe other people mean all day. Give us a break. Quote and corresponding verse. Thanks.
So you think that there was no change in Adam after he fell, and that we are not born as sinners?
Obviously not as Adam and Eve both ate of the fruit. Adam was disobedient.
There exists no passage that tells us Adam's nature was a perfect human nature which was transformed into a sin nature because of the Fall. In fact, Adam sinned in his original human nature.
and that sin brought forth to him physical and spiritual death, and to all afterwards!
We are born human, and we sin. We are human and fall short of the glory of God.
Scripture teaches that there was, in fact, one change in Adam due to his rebellion:
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened
Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;
And also the consequence of the curse:
Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
Both of these are things you have not addressed (things of Scripture). Instead you are fixated on your own theories...or the....what did you call it....Reformed traditions you have chosen to follow.
No, I am following the Bible, for in the fall of ASdam all became spiritually dead in sin, became sinners by both birth and choice now. God reckoned to all after the fall the same state that Adam became after He fell, and that was why Jesus had to have the Virgin Birth to avoid being tainted with that sin!
Why 3 when one will do
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The human heart is not only deceitful.
It is deceitful above things.
The human heart is not only wicked..
It is desperately wicked.
Not spiritual death:
Genesis 3:22-23 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"— therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
Nowhere in Scripture is Adam presented as being "spiritually alive" (as Scripture defines the term). Instead, spiritual life is God's own spirit in us.
If you know of any verse that states otherwise, please feel free to respond. Otherwise, opinions are like....noses...everyone has one.
I agree. I was asking because Y1 as made so many claims without even trying to back up his theories with Scripture.
I do not question that men, by nature, misses the mark and fall short of the glory of God. What I am questioning is the idea that Adam did not except as a consequence of the Fall (which is a bit silly since Adam's sin constituted the Fall....i.e., his nature did not fall and then he sinned).
In other words, I believe that not only we miss the mark and sin but Adam also missed the mark and sinned - that this is a part of human nature. We don't need a perfect human nature to have life. We need God and His Spirit in us.
No you are not. I've provided several passages stating what happened to Adam and that death spread to us all because we all sin. You have not provided even one....NOT EVEN ONE...verse that stated Adam's nature changed beyond what I've offered. You've only offered your opinions.
Prove me wrong - respond with a verse that states Adam had a perfect nature but that nature changed to a sin nature as a result of the Fall.
OK understood bro.
no, We have established that because infants are sent to hell directly as humans without their own sinful acts ,they do not have Adams sin.
Do you mean "heaven"?
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