Is Prayer Necessary for Salvation?

[Kathryn]

Yelsew:

I am not talking about prayers given by believers, but by those who are initially coming to belief. For it is that initial faith which if sustained throughout this natural life, is SAVING FAITH.

Prayer is not a work! Accept in the Catholic church!

It takes belief and Grace to pray to God, even an initial prayer when one first believes. You say the first prayer takes no human effort, yet reluctantly admit subsequent prayer would be a Christian work. You can later proclaim that prayer is not a work and put an exclamation point after it, but you don’t back up what you say. You are just insisting on it. Christian works are nothing to be ashamed of. It is God working through us. It is faith working through love. Salvation by Grace.

 

[Kiffin]

Prayer is not necessary for Salvation. The idea of a "Sinner's Prayer" is a modern day invention. We are saved by Grace through Faith. One embraces Christ in Faith and repentance

The Ethiopian Eunuch believed - No Sinner's Prayer.
The Phillipian Jailer believed - No Sinner's prayer

 

[Yelsew2]

The "subsequent prayer" is a Christian work in that the believer seldom prays only for him/herself but includes family, friends, government, schools, doctors, the unsaved, etc. Therefore they are offering up unselfish prayers. That qualifies those prayers to be "Righteousness Works", or "Salvific works". These prayers are never offered up to God by those who do not believe in God! NO, THEY ARE NOT PART OF SALVATION...BUT THEY ARE OFFERED BECAUSE THE ONE OFFERING THEM HAS ALREADY RECEIVED THE PROMISE OF SALVATION!

If God removed his unilateral, universal grace from mankind, it is then too late for salvation! Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace (while grace is present) are ye saved through faith (you can gain faith which saves you), and not of yourself (not by what you do...including prayer), it (salvation) is the Gift of God, NOT OF WORKS (nothing you can do), lest any man should boast (if you can do it you can boast about it).

 

[Ps104_33]

We seem to agree. Catholic teaching is we are saved by Grace alone, through faith. All that matters is faith working through love according to St. Paul. Faith, hope, and charity are gifts from God according to Holy Scripture. There is no way to work ones way to heaven by human effort. Salvation is by Grace alone.

Then what in the world have we all been arguing about for the past few years? And why does the Roman Catholic Church teach that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church if Protestants and Catholics believe the same thing?

 

[Kathryn]

Yelsew:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Seems we agree here that Salvation is by Grace Alone. Christian prayer is a Christian work, the result of Christ working within us, and nothing we can boast about. Faith working through love, as St. Paul calls it. Jesus Christ tells us in Scripture, those who do the will of the Father will be saved. We are unable to do the will of God without His Divine Grace. We obtain this Grace by prayer alone. That is how God set it up. Ask and you shall receive. Salvation is by Grace Alone, and yes prayer is necessary for Salvation.

 

[Kathryn]

Ps104:
[Then what in the world have we all been arguing about for the past few years? And why does the Roman Catholic Church teach that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church if Protestants and Catholics believe the same thing?]

Protestants don't want to accept that Catholics believe in Salvation by Grace Alone. They want to call any human obedience to God a work, and not necessary for salvation, rather than Christ's work within us. They want to believe in "Faith Alone" which is not taught in the Bible. They want to believe, even though not true, that Catholics try to work their way to heaven by their own human efforts and not by Grace Alone.

No, Catholics and Protestants don't believe all the same things. However, all who are baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, become children of God, and if they persevere in their faith, belong to the Catholic Church that Jesus Christ established, with Himself as the head and the Church as His Body, with the Holy Spirit, being the Soul, that Jesus Christ breathed into His Body. I am not going to say more on this subject because too many have been banned from BB for saying Salvation is through the Catholic Church. It's better for me not to allow the subject of the thread to change into that direction. There are very few Catholics left here.

 

[Yelsew2]

But Kathryn, you're wrong! I don't agree with YOU that salvation is by Grace alone!

Grace is the environment in which one comes to saving FAITH. Without Grace, Faith is not possible.

Conversely, Salvation is not possible without FAITH!

NOW, God provides his unilateral, universally applied Grace in which man can come to FAITH in Him.

God atoned for the all the sins of the
World, so that man is not bound by the penalty of sin. Man is not under the penalty of Sin! That's worth saying often!

We know that Man cannot earn salvation by anything man does.

Salvation = FAITH + NOTHING!

Because:
ALL men have God's grace!
ALL sins are Atoned!
ONLY those with FAITH are SAVED!

That is why Salvation is by FAITH ALONE!

 

[Kathryn]

[But Kathryn, you're wrong! I don't agree with YOU that salvation is by Grace alone! ]


You are free to accept or reject that Salvation is by Grace alone. Holy Scripture is clear that by Grace you have been saved through faith, and not of yourself, it is the gift of God.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

Catholics believe we are saved by Grace, from the merits of Jesus Christ on the cross. Not all Protestants believe this. I can accept that you do not.

 

[Kathryn]

Kiffin:

Prayer is not necessary for Salvation. The idea of a "Sinner's Prayer" is a modern day invention. We are saved by Grace through Faith. One embraces Christ in Faith and repentance

The Ethiopian Eunuch believed - No Sinner's Prayer.
The Phillipian Jailer believed - No Sinner's prayer

I agree the "Sinner's Prayer" is unbiblical and is taught no where in Holy Scripture. I also agree we are saved by Grace through faith. Boy, there sure is a wide range of beliefs here.

 

[Kathryn]

Kiffin:
"One embraces Christ in Faith and repentance". Isn't this done in prayer? How does one embrace Christ in faith and repentance without turning our hearts, and mind to God. Any conversion of heart is a turning to God in prayer. Salvation by Grace through faith.

 

[neal4christ]

That is why Salvation is by FAITH ALONE!

You really need to reread Ephesians 2:8. Or ask God to change it because you found a mistake in his Word.

In Christ,
Neal

 

[Kiffin]

Kathryn,

you said "How does one embrace Christ in faith and repentance without turning our hearts, and mind to God."

That is exactly how one is saved but that does not imply prayer. I cannot find one Scripture in the Bible where anyone prayed to Jesus to come in their heart. I am one who believes Regeneration causes one to have faith not vice versa. Faith and Repentance in Christ implies a turning from Sin, Self, World and the Devil and embracing Christ alone for Salvation. The evidence of that may be Prayer or it may not be. The Bible never says we are saved by Prayer but by Grace through Faith. It is God's grace that works faith in us (Eph. 2:8-10). Faith and Prayer are in no ways synomous. We do not obtain this Grace by prayer alone. Grace brings us to Faith and Grace is the working of God in us.

The Question asked "Is Prayer Necessary for Salvation?" and the answer is no.

 

[Yelsew2]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />That is why Salvation is by FAITH ALONE!

You really need to reread Ephesians 2:8. Or ask God to change it because you found a mistake in his Word.

In Christ,
Neal </font>[/QUOTE]There is no mistake in the written text, the mistake is in the "church's interpretation" of that specific text!

I have no difficulty understanding what Paul was telling the Ephesians, he is consistant with all the rest of the bible which tells us that it is FAITH ALONE that God seeks in man, and that HE, God, does not save those who do not have FAITH!

It is your interpretation that cause YOU grief!

 

[Yelsew2]

Originally posted by Kathryn:
Kiffin:
"One embraces Christ in Faith and repentance". Isn't this done in prayer? How does one embrace Christ in faith and repentance without turning our hearts, and mind to God. Any conversion of heart is a turning to God in prayer. Salvation by Grace through faith.

Look at what you just said, "Salvation by grace THROUGH faith" Then Look at what I said, They are the same thing. But your understanding is that Grace is the what saves. If true then ALL mankind is saved (Universal salvation) by Grace. But if it is FAITH what saves, God's universal grace gives ALL mankind the opportunity to come to faith and THEREBY be saved.

 

[Yelsew2]

Furthermore, If Grace is what saves, what is the purpose of the church? What did Christ tell his disciples to do? Go, make disciples of all nations, baptise them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

If Grace is what saves, there is absolutely no purpose for the church!

 

[Kathryn]

Kiffin:

Look at what you just said, "Salvation by grace THROUGH faith" Then Look at what I said, They are the same thing. But your understanding is that Grace is the what saves. If true then ALL mankind is saved (Universal salvation) by Grace. But if it is FAITH what saves, God's universal grace gives ALL mankind the opportunity to come to faith and THEREBY be saved.

I will look. I said what Scripture teaches:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

No, I don't believe in universal salvation that all will be saved. There is much more to the Gospel such as:

"Ask, and it will be given you; seek and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." Matt 7:7-8

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with me." Rev 3:20

Salvation requires prayer. This is how we knock. This is how we open the door. It is also how we repent for our sins. No, I do not believe in universal salvation just because I believe Ephesian 2:8.

 

[Brother Adam]

Grace is what makes salvation possible. By grace alone is salvation made possible.

Faith is what redeems us as sinful people. By faith we are made alive once again.

Faith is the "how", grace is the "by".

The only real question to ask yourself is: Is faith obedient?

 

[trying2understand]

This how I see it.

Grace leads to faith
Faith is lived through obedience
At death we have salvation

Salvation through a one time expression of faith is fiction.

 

[Yelsew2]

Originally posted by Brother Adam:
Grace is what makes salvation possible. By grace alone is salvation made possible.

Faith is what redeems us as sinful people. By faith we are made alive once again.

Faith is the "how", grace is the "by".

The only real question to ask yourself is: Is faith obedient?

You've left out the Atonement, you know, what "The Passion of the Christ" so aptly depicts.

While grace is present, God Atoned for ALL sins in ALL times Once, for ALL.

While Grace is present, man can Hear God's Holy Word and Believe unto FAITH.

Therefore, GRACE enabled Atonement, AND FAITH!

But look at all who do not have faith while in the midst of God's grace. If it is God's grace that saves there should be no one who is not saved. That is why I say it is FAITH ALONE that saves and Not Grace, though grace is the enabler of FAITH. God saves only those who have faith, while He gives his grace to ALL unilaterally and universally.

FAITH ALONE SAVES! Thank God for His Grace by which we can come to faith in Him, and thereby receive his Gift of Grace which is SALVATION! FAITH ALONE SANCTIFIES the believer setting him apart from the unbeliever, ALL, while God is shedding His grace on thee!

 

[Kathryn]

Yelsew: I can accept that you believe Grace doesn't save, but the Bible teaches:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:8

Nothing about Grace being just an environment.

Jesus Christ redeemed the world with His sacrifice on the cross. It is the will of God that all men be saved, yet because God gave us freewill, we have to ask for it. We have to knock, we have to open the door, we have to accept our salvation and persevere to the end in God's Grace. We are to repent and be baptized. Those who do the will of God will be saved. It is God's Grace that saves those who are saved.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:8