Is Saving Faith A Gift?

[Iconoclast]

YOUR "theology" is FAULTY, and EXPOSED by the Bible as so!

Yet,we see you cannot answer the bell scripturally.

 

[1689Dave]

Is Saving Faith A Gift?

There are some, especially from the “Reformed/Calvinist”, who say that Saving Faith is a Gift from God, which is given only to the “Elect”, so that they can believe, and be saved.

They use Ephesians 2:8-9, which says:

“for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast”

Contextually, Paul is speaking of Salvation as the Gift here. He repeats what he has just said in verse 5, “by grace you have been saved”. Clearly Salvation is the main theme here.

However, supposing that we agree and say that Saving Faith, is a Gift from God, and this is only given to the “Elect”. If this were true, then God must be unjust!

Faith is “to Believe”. A sinner is saved by both REPENTING and BELIEVING, as Jesus clearly Teaches in Mark 1:15, and elsewhere.

In Mark 16:16, Jesus says:

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned”

John 3:18 and 36 says:

“He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God…One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won’t see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

Clearly says, that those who BELIEVE, will be saved; and those who do NOT BELIEVE, will be damned.

Now, if Saving Faith is a Gift from God, and only given to the “Elect”, how can God Justly condemn those who do NOT BELIEVE, as they were not given this Saving Faith, so that they could be saved? This makes God unjust! God with-holds Saving Faith from the “non-elect”, so that they cannot BELIEVE and be saved; and then damns them for something that they CANNOT do???

This teaching CANNOT be from the Holy Bible, and is an INVENTION from those who clearly OPPOSE the Bible’s Teaching, that, “EVERYONE, WHOEVER, SHALL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD, WILL BE SAVED”.

The Bible says of Saving Faith

"So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17)

“And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Acts 10:45 (KJV 1900) Faith is a fruit of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

 

[SavedByGrace]

God has commanded all men everywhere to repent.They do not want to.Acts17:30

Now you can see that rubbish of your theology!

You quote this verse, and I actually agree with what you say. However, in "reformed" theology, "repentance" is also a "gift" from God, which He has given only to the "elect". In which case, HOW can God command "all men everywhere to repent", when He has not given them this "gift of repentance", as YOUR theology says???

Can you seen the complete nonsense of what your theology teaches?

 

[SavedByGrace]

“And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Acts 10:45 (KJV 1900) Faith is a fruit of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

I agree! The Gift in Acts 10, is THE HOLY SPIRIT, and not faith!

In Galatians faith, among other things, is a FRUIT of the Holy Spirit, no where does it say it is a GIFT!

You are reading your theology into what the Bible plainly says.

 

[1689Dave]

Now you can see that rubbish of your theology!

You quote this verse, and I actually agree with what you say. However, in "reformed" theology, "repentance" is also a "gift" from God, which He has given only to the "elect". In which case, HOW can God command "all men everywhere to repent", when He has not given them this "gift of repentance", as YOUR theology says???

Can you seen the complete nonsense of what your theology teaches?

“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

I agree! The Gift in Acts 10, is THE HOLY SPIRIT, and not faith!

In Galatians faith, among other things, is a FRUIT of the Holy Spirit, no where does it say it is a GIFT!

You are reading your theology into what the Bible plainly says.

If the Holy Spirit is a gift, so are His fruits including faith.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yet,we see you cannot answer the bell scripturally.

I have shown the faulty theology that you follow in # 23!

 

[SavedByGrace]

If the Holy Spirit is a gift, so are His fruits including faith.

Acts 2:38 and Ephesians 1:13-14, are very clear, that only AFTER the sinner REPENTS and BELIEVES, and are SAVED, that they receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Never before!

 

[1689Dave]

Acts 2:38 and Ephesians 1:13-14, are very clear, that only AFTER the sinner REPENTS and BELIEVES, and are SAVED, that they receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Never before!

Why would a sinner repent if they did not first believe? This is salvation by works you are teaching and it is found in all religions except biblical Christianity. Were you ever a Catholic by any chance?

 

[SavedByGrace]

A blind man cannot see a rainbow.
You like the blind man fail to perceive these truths.Today is another opportunity to thank God for His loving mercy in electing a multitude.

Matthew 13:15, "For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them"

Acts 28:27, "For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them"

Notice how this has been changed. In Isaiah 6:10, it reads, "Make the heart of this people fat. Make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and turn again, and be healed"

Yet Jesus and Paul make the closing of the eyes of those who reject Jesus and the Gospel, THEIR OWN DOING!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Why would a sinner repent if they did not first believe? This is salvation by works you are teaching and it is found in all religions except biblical Christianity. Were you ever a Catholic by any chance?

Born CoE, Born-again in 1982.

Salvation can never be from any "good works", as in "merit", as this would nullify Grace!

A sinner would repent when "convicted" by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus says in John 16:8-10; and in Acts 2:37, etc.

 

[1689Dave]

Born CoE, Born-again in 1982.

Salvation can never be from any "good works", as in "merit", as this would nullify Grace!

A sinner would repent when "convicted" by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus says in John 16:8-10; and in Acts 2:37, etc.

But you teach salvation by works when you make faith and repentance the cause of salvation. It is an effect of salvation.

 

[SavedByGrace]

“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900)

Indeed, Acts chapter 10 is the "Pentecost" of the non-Jews, the Gentiles. The Bible is very clear that prior to this time, that the Coming of Jesus Christ, was to His OWN PEOPLE, the Jews. Acts 11:18 is following up from chapter 10, and shows that God had then opened up the Way to salvation for the Gentiles as well!

Notice Peter's words in Acts 10:47, "Can anyone forbid these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just like us.”

 

[1689Dave]

Indeed, Acts chapter 10 is the "Pentecost" of the non-Jews, the Gentiles. The Bible is very clear that prior to this time, that the Coming of Jesus Christ, was to His OWN PEOPLE, the Jews. Acts 11:18 is following up from chapter 10, and shows that God had then opened up the Way to salvation for the Gentiles as well!

Notice Peter's words in Acts 10:47, "Can anyone forbid these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just like us.”

It shows that repentance is a gift.

 

[SavedByGrace]

But you teach salvation by works when you make faith and repentance the cause of salvation. It is an effect of salvation.

let me quote you the KJV for Jonah 3:10,

"And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way (REPENTED); and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not"

And Acts 10:34-35,

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and WORKETH righteousness, is accepted with him"

What do you make of these verses?

 

[SavedByGrace]

It shows that repentance is a gift.

see #23

 

[1689Dave]

let me quote you the KJV for Jonah 3:10,

"And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way (REPENTED); and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not"

And Acts 10:34-35,

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and WORKETH righteousness, is accepted with him"

What do you make of these verses?

Only the saved can do the works Peter describes. Were the Ninevites saved? They would have had to become Jewish converts. What if America were to repent, would there be less suffering?

 

[1689Dave]

see #23

You need to present your argument.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Only the saved can do the works Peter describes. Were the Ninevites saved? They would have had to become Jewish converts. What if America were to repent, would there be less suffering?

No doubt that the Ninevites were saved, as Johan preached the Gospel of repentance to them!

The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here (Matthew 12:41)

Jesus is the Highest Authority!

 

[SavedByGrace]

You need to present your argument.

I have in # 23, show where I am wrong