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Is Speaking inTongues of the Devil?
- Thread starter Jabbezzz
- Start date
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dianetavegia
Guest
Jabbezzz, this is a Baptist ONLY forum so I'll transfer this for you to the 'Other Religions' forum.
Diane
Diane
That some people misuse and misapply the gifts of the Spirit do not negate them. There are some who are practicing what they call speaking in tongues that are not doing it according to what the Bible says. I remember a few years ago that Fred Price told his church on a TV broadcast that they were going to show those Baptist what this tongues thing is all about. He said, "when I say go everyone speak in tongues". He said go and they all began what appear to to be babbling all throughout the sanctuary. There is no biblical instruction or teaching concerning anything like that. Do I believe it was of the Devil? I think it was more of the flesh. There are many carnal things that happen in churches of all kinds.
Is speaking in tongues of the Devil? No. If it is genuine and done in a biblical manner, lead by the Spirit of God, then how can it be of the devil? Just because something has been misused and missapplied does not mean the real thing is of the devi.
Now there are those who are cessationist who believe the time of tongues has past. I believe the gifts of the Spirit are for the Church age and since we are still the church and the Spirit still works within us, I believe if He felt the need to give the gift of tongues to a person that is His business. I don't believe any gift is given so someone can feel spiritually superior or as proof that they have the Holy Spirit. It is the fruit of the Spirit which shows that the Spirit is in control of your life. When it comes to the gifts we need to be sure not to step into the flesh and make something happen, but wait on the Spirit and let Him do what He pleases.
Bro Tony
Is speaking in tongues of the Devil? No. If it is genuine and done in a biblical manner, lead by the Spirit of God, then how can it be of the devil? Just because something has been misused and missapplied does not mean the real thing is of the devi.
Now there are those who are cessationist who believe the time of tongues has past. I believe the gifts of the Spirit are for the Church age and since we are still the church and the Spirit still works within us, I believe if He felt the need to give the gift of tongues to a person that is His business. I don't believe any gift is given so someone can feel spiritually superior or as proof that they have the Holy Spirit. It is the fruit of the Spirit which shows that the Spirit is in control of your life. When it comes to the gifts we need to be sure not to step into the flesh and make something happen, but wait on the Spirit and let Him do what He pleases.
Bro Tony
It might be, in some cases, but not in all. It is a 20th century phenomena, that started in 1901, and previous to then was unknown among the churches. It is a fake, an imitation of the true gift of speaking in tongues that was given in the Apostolic Age of the first century. It ceased at the end of the first century when there was no longer any need for it. It had outgrown its usefulness. It was no longer needed. Its purpose had been fulfilled.
1Cor.14:21,22 specifically teach that tongues was for a sign--a sign to the unbelieving Jew. It was a sign to them that the gospel message being preached by the Apostles was truly from God, and if they did not believe it judgement would soom come upon them. This was a prophecy quoted by Paul from Isaiah 28. The prophecy came true. They did not listen to the message. Judgement came upon them, in the form of the destruction of the city of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Shortly after that tongues ceased. Both Roman historians (such as Tacitus), and Jewish historians (such as Josephus) will attest to this. After 1800 years there are no tongues except occasionally in some heretical groups, until the beginning of the 20th century. If this gift was truly from God, then why did God hide it from all the believers for 1800 years. It is not of God. It is a cheap imitation of the true gift of the first century, and God is not pleased with it.
DHK
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dianetavegia
Guest
Baptist Only post in Baptist Only forums but I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses here too, Jabez.
Are tongues of the devil? No. Are they for today? No. Tongues was always a lesser gift that has been raised in some denominations to the level of proof of salvation. Never was tongues given to every believer.
1 Corinthians 12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Are tongues of the devil? No. Are they for today? No. Tongues was always a lesser gift that has been raised in some denominations to the level of proof of salvation. Never was tongues given to every believer.
1 Corinthians 12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Diane has done an excellent job in showing the verses that cessationist use in regards to tongues. There are many fine theologians that hold this view.
There are also many fine ones who don't believe in the total cessation of the gift of tongues as they would not believe that "knowledge has vanished away". The question here has to do with that which is perfect, cessationist hold that to be the canon of Scripture. I believe that is a stretch and that we still see through the glass dimly, and that we do not walk in perfect knowledge, and that we still need the full work of the Holy Spirit in the Church. He is today "distributing to each one individually as He wills". Notice the "then" in verse 12 has not yet come. The perfect has not yet come.
Now you have a basic statement from the two groups within the Baptist body. Both views are held by God loving, and Scripture believing theologians within the Baptist tradition.
Bro Tony
There are also many fine ones who don't believe in the total cessation of the gift of tongues as they would not believe that "knowledge has vanished away". The question here has to do with that which is perfect, cessationist hold that to be the canon of Scripture. I believe that is a stretch and that we still see through the glass dimly, and that we do not walk in perfect knowledge, and that we still need the full work of the Holy Spirit in the Church. He is today "distributing to each one individually as He wills". Notice the "then" in verse 12 has not yet come. The perfect has not yet come.
Now you have a basic statement from the two groups within the Baptist body. Both views are held by God loving, and Scripture believing theologians within the Baptist tradition.
Bro Tony
No, tongues is not of the devil!
Acts 2:4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:38-39
38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Isn't He still calling? Isn't God wonderful!
MEE
Acts 2:4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:38-39
38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Isn't He still calling? Isn't God wonderful!
MEE
Gup20
Active Member
Now that the Big B's (baptists) have had a chance to weigh in, I will offer a more in depth explaination of what I believe.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Is it required for salvation? Absolutely not. It is required to be used of God? Absolutely not. Is it required to hear from God? Absolutely not. It is an amplifier. It is a booster. Think of the Holy Spirit's role - our Comforter... our helper. This is His role in our prayer life - to interceed for us... to be an advocate for us. Tongues is an additional helper/gift. Is it a prerequisite to Christianity? No. Does it help? Yes, tremendously.
Honestly... how many 'gifts of the spirit' would you rather go without? It may not be an important gift to some... but it is a gift... one that GOd makes available to those who wish to use it.
I think that tongues is for today. Part of the reason for that is I have experienced it's effectiveness personally. I have been in some powerful prayer meetings... and prayer is a press. The Bible says that when we don't know how to pray or what to pray we can pray in tongues and the holy spirit makes intercession on our behalf.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Is it required for salvation? Absolutely not. It is required to be used of God? Absolutely not. Is it required to hear from God? Absolutely not. It is an amplifier. It is a booster. Think of the Holy Spirit's role - our Comforter... our helper. This is His role in our prayer life - to interceed for us... to be an advocate for us. Tongues is an additional helper/gift. Is it a prerequisite to Christianity? No. Does it help? Yes, tremendously.
Honestly... how many 'gifts of the spirit' would you rather go without? It may not be an important gift to some... but it is a gift... one that GOd makes available to those who wish to use it.
Gup20
Active Member
Yes, Bro Tony - practically if you close your mouth, tongues cease. However, love continues even when you are not speaking or even if you are not in the presence of the person you love.
The verse doesn't necessarily mean that tongues has ceased, but that love doesn't cease or fail.
Gup20,
Notice the verse says that the "Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings that cannot be uttered" not ourselves.
If tongues are for today, it should be in accordance with the example given in the Bible, which is known languages, not jibber-jabber, and with an interpreter.
Notice the verse says that the "Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings that cannot be uttered" not ourselves.
If tongues are for today, it should be in accordance with the example given in the Bible, which is known languages, not jibber-jabber, and with an interpreter.
Gup,
Good to hear from you brother. Do you believe that Romans 8:26 has to do with tongues? I believe this teaches that the Spirit "makes intercessions for us with groanings that cannot be uttered." I have experienced this in my prayer life, I would not put this into the same category as what Paul taught in 1 Cor 12 & 14 as he taught about tongues in the church. The above verse seems to teach that it is the Spirit praying for me when I cannot or do not know how to pray. Just some thoughts, what do you think?
Bro Tony
Good to hear from you brother. Do you believe that Romans 8:26 has to do with tongues? I believe this teaches that the Spirit "makes intercessions for us with groanings that cannot be uttered." I have experienced this in my prayer life, I would not put this into the same category as what Paul taught in 1 Cor 12 & 14 as he taught about tongues in the church. The above verse seems to teach that it is the Spirit praying for me when I cannot or do not know how to pray. Just some thoughts, what do you think?
Bro Tony
I wanted to say that I don't lean toward the ceasing of tongues or the continuation, but my concern is with what we see today. Is it biblical to speak in the manner we hear today and claim that it is scripturally sound?
In the study that I have been a part of, it seems to me that tongues were and are known languages. When used in the church, we are to have an interpreter or remain silent.
In the study that I have been a part of, it seems to me that tongues were and are known languages. When used in the church, we are to have an interpreter or remain silent.
Gershom,
I am in agreement with you that is why I believe there is a distinction between what Paul was speaking about in Romans 8:26 and what he taught to the Church at Corinth. One is personal and private the other speaks of in the Church. I believe biblical tongues are languages that are not known to the speaker and in the church it is without dispute that there must be an interpreter.
Bro Tony
I am in agreement with you that is why I believe there is a distinction between what Paul was speaking about in Romans 8:26 and what he taught to the Church at Corinth. One is personal and private the other speaks of in the Church. I believe biblical tongues are languages that are not known to the speaker and in the church it is without dispute that there must be an interpreter.
Bro Tony
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dianetavegia
Guest
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
The groaning which cannot be uttered are NOT tongues but a heart wrenching time when words fail us but our Comforter, the precious Holy Spirit, interceeds for us to God our Father.
The groaning which cannot be uttered are NOT tongues but a heart wrenching time when words fail us but our Comforter, the precious Holy Spirit, interceeds for us to God our Father.
Gup20
Active Member
If delivered as a word in a corporate setting, then there should be an interpreter... Tongues is not meant as an edification to the body in a corporate settings. However, if it's between you and God, I believe this prayer in tongues can be done almost anywhere at anytime.
1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Cr 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
It seems clear to me that prophecy comes by tuning in to God... it seems that tuning into God can come by praying in tongues. Tongues is not the desired end manifestation of the Holy Spirit working in a person, but rather prophecy is the desired result - speaking God's word to the body so that edification can come. However, tongues is a way for your spirit to speak to God - to connect. Clearly these verses indicate that prophecy is much more desireable - to deliver God's word to the body with understanding - but it also says DO NOT FORBID tongues.
Yes, I would say that tongues is a way for your spirit to speak to God when there is no understanding. The primary distinction that must be made (and I think is the difference between 1Corinthians and Romans) is this intercession is on a personal basis. Paul is teaching on the role of tongues corporately in 1Cor. Romans speaks more to personal intercession. Clearly, in a corporate setting, it does not edify the body to bring a Word without understanding... as the scripture says it is between you and God. However, it is a source of strength and power - as I said... a help - and someone ministering should feel free to use it as long as it's understood that it is not the desired end-product - the end-product should be prophecy in an understood language.
It is like a road that leads you to a destination... the road can be smooth and straight aiding your journey or winding and rough making the destination harder to reach. Tongues (and prayer in general) lays the road... forms the path to get to where you need to go.
Tongues is the road, prophecy is the destination. That is what 1Cor is saying in regards to corporate manifestation of tongues.
Speaking in tongues is a scriptural event only if (1) there is one person speaking in a language that no one in earshot understands, and (2) there is another person who is able to translate what the person is saying. I've never seen an instance of real speaking in tongues, but have seen many instances of people babbling whatever comes into their minds and speaking in tongues. Does that mean it's of the devil? Only if it takes the focus off of the Lord. Otherwise, it's incoherent babbling.
I don't concern myself with the gift of tongues. The Holy Spirit has seen fit to bless me with other spiritual gifts, and that's perfectly fine with me.