Originally posted by Gup20:
If delivered as a word in a corporate setting, then there should be an interpreter... Tongues is not meant as an edification to the body in a corporate settings. However, if it's between you and God, I believe this prayer in tongues can be done almost anywhere at anytime.
The Biblical gift of tongues is first and foremost a
gift. All of the spiritual gifts mentioned in 1Cor.12 are spiritual gifts. These gifts were ALL given to the local church, in this case the Corinthian Church. There is not a sngle gift that was given for selfish purposes: that is for self-edification, for one's own prayer life, etc. That is totally unbiblical. Every gift was given for the benefit of the local church. For example, the gift of healing was never gift for one to heal just themselves, but for the healing of others in the church. The same is true of tongues. It is always for the benefit of the entire church, not a prayer language, not for the edification of one person. It is a gift for the entire local church.
1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
--This verse is a rebuke to the Corinthians. Don't speak in tongues, becasue the rest can't understand you. The key is understanding. If there is no understanding the gift is unprofitable and useless. All that you are doing is speaking to God in another language that only God can understand, and not even yourself. What good is that??
[QUOTE}1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. [/QUOTE]
Another rebuke. He plainly tells them that it is better to prophecy than it is to speak in tongues. The gift of prophecy is better because it gives the church understanding, whereas tongues does not. The statement is diplomatic. It would be like saying, "Yes, It would be nice if you could all speak in tongues (but it is not necessary). Rather it is better that you all prophecy. The only way that tongues is beneficial is when there is clear interpretation provided so that all can understood.
1Cr 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
Another rebuke. Paul said this because the Corinthians were abusing the gift. In his missionary journeys there were times in other countries where he had the need to speak in other languages where people would not understand Hebrew, or perhaps even Greek. He was given the gift of tongues that all could understand. The key in the chapter is understanding. The Corinthians were abusing the gift. Thus he says that he thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than they all. They were not using the gift correctly.
1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Again look at the emphasis. It is on prophecy, not tongues. And what is the context of speaking in tongues. It is in the first century. "Forbid not to speak in tongues (in the first century). The gift ceased after that.
It seems clear to me that prophecy comes by tuning in to God... it seems that tuning into God can come by praying in tongues.
It was a supernatural gift, given in a supernatural way without prayer. Take a look at the Day of Pentecost. No one prayed for tongues. It came totally unexpectedly. We are never commanded to pray for tongues. That in itself is unbiblical. It is not a way to tune into God. It was a way to: one receive revelation of God in a different language, and then have it interpreted into a language so that all could understand. Secondly it was a sign to the unbelieving Jew that the message of the gospel was from God, and that judgement from God would fall if they would not hear and believe (1Cor. 14:21,22).
Tongues is not the desired end manifestation of the Holy Spirit working in a person, but rather prophecy is the desired result - speaking God's word to the body so that edification can come. However, tongues is a way for your spirit to speak to God - to connect.
Chapter and verse please. No where in Scripture does it teach that tongues is a way for your spirit to speak to God or connect. That is a totally unbiblical concept with no foundation in Scripture. Tongues was a gift given to the entire local church for their edification, not for yours. There is no such thing as a selfish spiritual gift.
Clearly these verses indicate that prophecy is much more desireable - to deliver God's word to the body with understanding - but it also says DO NOT FORBID tongues.
The context is the first century. Tongues ceased after that. Forbid not to speak in tongues in the first century. Everything must be kept in its proper context. When a person speaks in tongues today do they also have cloven tongues of fire over their heads, and mighty rushing winds going through their windows??
Yes, I would say that tongues is a way for your spirit to speak to God when there is no understanding.
If there is no understanding what is the point in speaking to God. Even God would have you to speak to God in a way that you understand. Prayer is for your benefit, not God's.
The primary distinction that must be made (and I think is the difference between 1Corinthians and Romans) is this intercession is on a personal basis.
There is no personal basis for tongues. It is a gift given to the local churh for the purpose of edifying the entire local church. God does not give out gifts for selfish uses. The gift of helps is mentioned. Is it a gift just to help yourself, or is it a gift intended to help others? Think about it.
Paul is teaching on the role of tongues corporately in 1Cor. Romans speaks more to personal intercession. Clearly, in a corporate setting, it does not edify the body to bring a Word without understanding... as the scripture says it is between you and God.
What evidence? There is none? The Book of Romans does not mention tongues once. It does not deal with the subject at all. The only places that you will find the subject of tongues are three times in the Book of Acts: chapters 2, 10, and 19. And in chapters 12,13, and 14 of 1Corinthians. Those are the only places in the New Testament that deal with this subject.
However, it is a source of strength and power - as I said... a help - and someone ministering should feel free to use it as long as it's understood that it is not the desired end-product - the end-product should be prophecy in an understood language.
It was a source of understanding to those that did not understand the language of the Apostles. It was a sign to the unbelieving Jews of the first century. At the end of the first century it ceased.
It is like a road that leads you to a destination... the road can be smooth and straight aiding your journey or winding and rough making the destination harder to reach. Tongues (and prayer in general) lays the road... forms the path to get to where you need to go.
Do you have any Scriptural basis for what you are saying. Tongues has no such purpose, and no purpose at all in today's society and age. They are not from the Holy Spirit, and if so you tell me where they are from?
Tongues is the road, prophecy is the destination. That is what 1Cor is saying in regards to corporate manifestation of tongues.
Both are spiritual supernatural gifts that have ceased. They were given to the early church of the first century, and are no longer in use today. See 1Cor.13:8.
DHK
