Is Suicide a sin?

A lie by definition is intentional, so these 2 statements were not lies. When you said them you meant them and had every intention of carrying them out. There is no way I can see to call these 2 statements lies.

 

Marcia,

I disagree. the only way it would not be a lie is if one says, 'If the Lord will,' before saying I am going to do such and such.

To say you are going to do something and then not do it, regardless of the reason for not doing it, is a lie. You have made a definite statement, 'I am...' and then did not.

 

Who taught you that?

How can it be a lie to tell someone your schedule and then have it changed by circumstance? Does the whole world not know that things happen and nothing is set in stone? Only a child fails to understand that sometimes things don't work out the way we had planned.

 

mk,

Regardless of schedule change. If you say you are going to do something and don't do it, you have told a lie... whether unintentional or not.

 

Telling a lie is being dishonest. When you said these 2 things, you were not being dishonest. You were not covering something up. You were not saying them as an untruth. You were making a statement about the future and then something happened to prevent you from doing them. That is not the definition of a lie.

 

ahhh, but doesn't it create a false impression? after all the one you say you are going to visit thinks you will be there.

 

There has to be an intention to deceive, that is what lying is. So there is no lie. There is no desire or intent to create a false impression, tell an untruth, to mislead, to deceive, to cover up, etc. We have to use words the way they are meant - a lie means there is an intent to deceive, that's why it's wrong to lie.

 

There is such a thing as changing one's mind. If its really something serious you should let the other know but to change your mind is not a lie. Let me know if it is I got a lot of repenting to do.

 

See, there's the problem Bob. People in today's society like to explain away sin. 'Oh, I changed my mind,' is a cop-out.

The Bible speaks of vows and the fact that when a vow is made, one should not be slack, for the Lord will requite it of us.

There are intentional and unintentional sins. Just as a person can unintentionally pick up a pen and write a note at someone's business and absent-mindedly stick it in one's pocket after writing that note (thereby stealing the pen), one can also unintentionally lie.

Rumors would give one a good example of a lie that was unintentional. Tell one person one thing and by the time it gets to the tenth or twentieth person, it has been twisted in some shape or form. It has become a lie. Was it intentional? Many times no, people hear things different ways and they try to relate to another how they heard them.

The Word of God says we should say 'if the Lord will.' When we say 'if the Lord will,' our statement is not a lie if not carried through because it places a stipulation in the promise.

 

I think the question should not be if suicide is a sin.........we know that it is. The question is, does it prove that the person was not saved? My answer to that would be NO, it cannot prove that the person wasn't saved.

 

Suicide cannot prove that the person was saved.

As posted earlier, Jesus said a good tree cannot bear evil fruit and that you will know the tree by the fruit it bears. If the last fruit that person produces in his life is not fruit of God, his or her salvation experience is very questionable.

 

no fruit within a person's life can definitively prove to other people that a person is or is not saved.......

why does it matter if the fruit is the LAST fruit they bore on earth?

The analogies of "good trees bearing good fruit", and sweet water versus bitter water are given to us to tell us to act right. We ought to take a clue from the natural world around us in this regard. That does not mean that a Christian CAN'T(as in incapable of) sin, it means they are giving in to an unnatural order if they DO sin........and so we are being told NOT to sin.

 

Huh? Who even suggested such a thing? Suicide doesn't prove a thing about salvation one way or the other.

Is absent-mindedness a sin? In your example, if the person in question doesn't return the pen after they find that they walked away with it, then it's a sin. Not before.

Isn't spreading rumors the same as gossip?

If we're not talking about rumors, but about the spreading of information, then you're talking about an honest mistake. An honest mistake is not a sin. I still don't buy the idea of unintentional sin, and you have yet to prove that such a thing exists.

 

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Have we really been born of God? After all, each of us gives in to sin from time to time, now don't we?

I do not even like to call myself a Christian, for the word 'Christian' means to be Christ-like, one that patterns his life after Jesus Christ.

If we are truly born again, would we not give in to temptations? John seemed to think so according to the above verse.

 

Regardless whether the pen is returned or not, the person has unintentionally stolen that pen. Stealing is a sin.

 

that is baloney!!

 

Exodus 20: 15 Thou shalt not steal.

Steal:

 

SFIC,

A person that commits suicide may have had faith; their trials have not been more overbearing than they could truly stand, BUT they still SINNED resulting in ending their life in the flesh.

You have not applied your logic to any of the questions of a person dying in any other way while committing any other sin to be any different and set apart from suicide!

You referred to the passages in Matthew 7 about Jesus saying, “depart from me, ye that work inequity”. That person could only be working inequity if they were not in the Spirit of Christ and they were still under the law. Those very same people had said Lord, Lord have we not done many wonder works in your name? WRONG ANSWER! The works are His if you’re in Him, and your works are nothing, and they don’t get you into heaven, nor keep you out, FAITH in Him does. The law (inequity) is for those who do not believe that Jesus paid for their sins in full; if they did have the faith, they would have been born again in the spirit of Christ and therefore would not have been under the law of sin.

And yes we will know them by their fruit; every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but every corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Question is: What kind of fruit does the prophet bring forth, that will tell you what tree it came from.
Is it a false prophet saying we can get to heaven by any other means, or a true prophet confirming and strengthening those that are converted?

One sin is too many, so pray tell me why a true born again converted believer washed in the Blood of the Lamb would EVER think they still had a debt to fulfill of repentance for a particular set apart sin to receive forgiveness?

SFIC, do you not have one sin, one evil thought, one temptation from Satan’s devices in this world, and do you know that that one sin makes you guilty of all and will send you to Hell? It doesn’t matter whether you repent of it on your own because Jesus is the only way, and if you were to die today without being born again by belief in this gift of the grace freely given of God that ALL your sins have been paid for in full through the death, burial and resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ you have no hope. If you do not understand that there is nothing that you can do to get yourself into to heaven and that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, I have some good news to share with you.

Look out I’m having one of those days! :tongue3:

 

whether intended or not, theft is theft. The pen is stolen if it is removed from someone's property without them given permission.

 

Benjamin,

Are you accusing sfiC of being unsaved?