Is Suicide a sin?

Actually, I didn't come up with it. Someone else did. I simply worked out some variables.:tongue3:

 

Always?

You should become a Weslyan Methodist. The systemitized attaining salvation by working toward sinless perfection.

Hypercalvinists believe you can have security but no assurance.

The arminian believes you can have assurance but not security.

The calvinist correctly believes what the Bible teaches- we can have both assurance and security.

IOW's, regardless of what the Bible says you think we have to do something to attain or secure our own salvation, right?

Your picture would indicate that you aren't a young man. If you have been as successful as your words seem to indicate then you should be fairly close to sinless perfection now. Are you?

You said that you "choose to listen to the Holy Spirit" and repent... are you saying that once you discover a sin in your life you never do it again?

Committing adultery would negate the fact that no adulterer will get into heaven... same with lying, cheating, or any other sin.

Do you really live with the fear that you might at any time commit a sin and drop dead of a heart attack the very next moment? Would that send you to hell?

 

Well, we have some pretty tall buildings here in Houston.:laugh:

 

Your definition of sin is simply not correct. All sin is willful and intentional.

Then, none of us are saved. It's sad that you claim salvation by grace and then add to it.

 

There are more than one issues brought up here:

1. Can a person be saved and willfully sin?

2. Is a person who willfully sins really saved?

3. Can a person loose their salvation by sinning and dying without repenting?

4. When a person is saved, does the blood of Jesus cover their sins past, present and future?

5. Finally, is suicide such a "bad" sin that it would cause a person to go to hell whereas other sins might not be so "bad"?

 

• 1. Can a person be saved and willfully sin?
• 2. Is a person who willfully sins really saved?
• 3. Can a person loose their salvation by sinning and dying without repenting?
• 4. When a person is saved, does the blood of Jesus cover their sins past, present and future?
• 5. Finally, is suicide such a "bad" sin that it would cause a person to go to hell whereas other sins might not be so "bad"?
• Reply With Quote

Sounds like the lineup of five new threads...

 

Well, I just spent WAY too much time readeing every entry on this thread, so I thought I would chime in.

YES, suicide is sin! NO, suicide will not keep the genuine Believer from heaven. I feel sorry for any church whose pastor would tell them that. How sad.

When Jesus saved me (and He did!), he forgave me of all my sin - past, present and future. With that being said, will I continue to sin? Unfortunately, yes I will. Just ask my wife and kids! But, it is not sin that keeps us out of heaven. John 1:29 says that Jesus "takes away the sin of the world!" It was paid in full at the cross. The only thing that keeps anyong out of heaven in regecting Christ's offer of Salvation, which we have to receive on His terms.

IF unconfessed sin could keep me out of heaven, as some suggest, then could I ever be certain that I have eternal life? 1 John 5:13 says that I can be certain.

Now, this idea of intentional and untintentional sin is foolishness. If it is unintentional, we call it an accident, and is not sin. I have been a Believer for over 30 years, and I still sin. That's why 1 John 1:9 was written. And as a Beliver, as a child of God, God does chastise me for my sin, and this serve as a great reminder for me to confess my sin.

But, I also have a bad memory. I tend to forget things. And there's no way that anyone's ever going to convince me that my failure to confess just one sin is going to keep me out of heaven.

Let me put it this way. At the moment of salvation, we establish an everlasting relationship with God - we are his children. The relationship is permanent. It will never end. There's nothing I can do to end that relationship. BUT, fellowship is a different thing. We can be out of fellowship with God because of our sin, but we are still in relationship with God - that never changes.

So, suicide is bad. It's the most selfish thing a person can do. It only hurts those left behind. BUT, it is not going to keep the Believer out of heaven.

 

Great point. This is very similar to my real life fact that I adopted three daughters. The moment the judge said they were mine, they were mine forever; even after they grow up. Regardless of what happens to them, they are still MY children; even if they move away and get married to somebody and have kids of their own. The law says, they are mine from then on and the record books (including their birth certificates) now show me as their father. Unless I were to change it in a will, they will inheret what little I leave behind. They can even mess up bad -- and I'll always be there to pick them up.

Our Heavenly Father loves us even more than I love my kids. There is NOTHING that we or anybody else can do that will undo our relationship from the moment we accepted it.

 

I would have to disagree on their being no such thing as an unintentional sin.

Let me give you an example...

I tell you, SBC Preacher, that I am coming to your house on Wednesday morning to take you to the bank and then that evening I am going to be preaching at the IFB church just around the corner from you.

On the way to your house, I am in an accident. Now, even though the accident is not my fault, I am unable to make it to your house, thereby missing my appointment with you. Subsequently, I also am unable to go to the IFB church to minister because of the injuries sustained from the accident.

Now, even though I did not intend to, I have told a lie, well, actually two lies. Lying is a sin. The Bible says 'Thou shalt not bear false witness.'

There are other sins that can be unintentional as well. Let's say your son or your daughter meets someone they really like, they fall in love with this person and before long, they marry. Suppose that other person never told your son or daughter that he or she had ever been married before and divorced? The Bible says that if one marrys another who was divorced, that one commits adultery. Adultery is sin.

There are several other instances can be given, but I think you get the point. sfiC is not wrong in saying there are unintentional and intentional sins.

And if sfiC can keep from committing a sin after the Holy Spirit convicts him of it, then wonderful! Isn't that what conviction is all about? Paul said if one is in Christ, old things are passed away. I believe that includes all the sins one was in before one's salvation experience. If one continues in that sin, as sfiC points out, then that one cannot have had the experience of salvation; or the old things would be passed away. Does that mean he will never sin again? No, but he will not remain in sin.

 

RE: Suicide

His Blood...

Yes, that's a valid point. I can see what you're saying. Thanks for the info!

But, for a Believer to say that all he ever does now is "unintentional" sin - I just can't buy that. Every now and then even the "best Christian" (if there is such a thing) gives in to temptation and sins - I don't care who they are.

My point is that even the intentional sin can't end our relationship with our heavenly father. That relationship is eternal.

 

Maybe I am reading the posts wrong, but isn't there just the slightest chance that that person who died while committing sin could be as sfiC said, unsaved all along?

I am interested in looking deeper in the Bible about sfiC's post concerning 'we shall know the tree by the fruit it bears,' and 'a tree that bears bad fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.'

 

Originally Posted by standingfirminChrist
Marcia,

The Holy Spirit keeps us from willful sin, or tries to with many. Those whom belong to God, when there is a temptation, there is also the Holy Spirit there to tell us that we had better not do it.

I choose to listen to the Holy Spirit.


Well, SFIC,

what if a person is rebelling and choosing to ignore the Holy Spirit for a time in their life? Does that mean that they aren't saved? Do you think then that they were NEVER saved at all, or that they lose their salvation?
As I understand it the Holy SPirit does not FORCE us to not sin, He is there to convict us of sin..........we are convicted of sin AFTER we do the sin, btw. And of course the Holy SPirit guides us and we ought to be following His leading in our lives.

I don't believe that a true Christian is immune from intentional sin. I do believe that if anyone claims to ALWAYS listen to the Holy Spirit and NEVER does an intentional sin, then they're lying.........even if only to themselves.

 

There's no difference between the unsaved committing a sin while dying and the unsaved committing a sin 10 years before they die. The unsaved person is dead in their sins regardless of the timing of death.

 

cc,

What I was trying to say is Is there not even a slight chance that the person who claims to be a christian and dies while committing a sin, not be a christian all along?

 

Of course there is that chance. There will be plenty of people who die claiming to be Christians that will end up in Hell. Like the Bible says, there will be millions who say "Lord, Lord" but He will reply "I never knew you".

 

Thank you, webdog!

But from the many posts in this thread, there are several that would disagree.

 

His Blood,

no, what they are saying is that if a person commits suicide that does not PROVE that they were NEVER saved. Of course there's a chance, but suicide is not PROOF.

 

Bapmom summed up what I was trying to say very well.

 

Oh, I see. I misunderstood your question.

BTW, I just erased an entire paragraph after I saw that bapmom made my point in one sentence.

 

never mind, you just won't accept what I see anyway.