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Is Suicide a sin?
- Thread starter Rex77
- Start date
God a liar?
Of course God is not a liar, you are mis-reading his words. If He meant what you think then hundreds of Christians would never make it if they didn't ask for forgiveness.
Jesus is simply pointing out that sin will not be allowed in heaven. What is it about Jesus' blood wiping out our sins, past, present and future that is so difficult to understand?
Those who are washed in the blood are clean. God is not tied to time frames like we are. When he cleans us, he cleans us for good. Although I'm sure the Lord really likes us to repent, it just isn't a requirement to get to heaven if we were saved in the past at one point in time.
Of course God is not a liar, you are mis-reading his words. If He meant what you think then hundreds of Christians would never make it if they didn't ask for forgiveness.
Jesus is simply pointing out that sin will not be allowed in heaven. What is it about Jesus' blood wiping out our sins, past, present and future that is so difficult to understand?
Those who are washed in the blood are clean. God is not tied to time frames like we are. When he cleans us, he cleans us for good. Although I'm sure the Lord really likes us to repent, it just isn't a requirement to get to heaven if we were saved in the past at one point in time.
No Trotter, you were along the right track. I am trying to get stndingfirminChrist to answer whether or not a Christian can commit suicide.Trotter said:
There is no doubt that a lot of people are not saved who commit suicide and possibly even thought they were. But, I want to know if it is possible for a Christian to commit a sin on that list and get to heaven without asking for forgiveness.
No disagreement there. I'm trying to find out if it is a requirement for those sins on the list standingfirminChrist brought up. I say no. Not if one is already saved. But, if someone commits one of those sins and dies without asking for repentence then what happens (if that person was indeed a Christian to start with). I agree totally that often these people are not Christians, but those few that are?Trotter said:
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Phillip,
I have already answered that. No true christian will commit suicide. God will keep that one from being tempted above that he is able, such as is common to man.
would not suicide be a temptation that fits into the description of a temptation more than man can bear? After all, if man gives in to that suicide, that temptation would be more than one could bear.
If he or she were able to bear it, he or she would not commit suicide.
Greek word for 'bear':
Meaning: 1) to bear by being under, bear up (a thing placed on one's shoulders) 2) to bear patiently, to endure
Origin: from 5259 and 5342;; v
Usage: AV - endure 2, bear 1; 3
Doesn't sound like He is saying go ahead and give in to the temptation.
I have already answered that. No true christian will commit suicide. God will keep that one from being tempted above that he is able, such as is common to man.
would not suicide be a temptation that fits into the description of a temptation more than man can bear? After all, if man gives in to that suicide, that temptation would be more than one could bear.
If he or she were able to bear it, he or she would not commit suicide.
Greek word for 'bear':
Meaning: 1) to bear by being under, bear up (a thing placed on one's shoulders) 2) to bear patiently, to endure
Origin: from 5259 and 5342;; v
Usage: AV - endure 2, bear 1; 3
Doesn't sound like He is saying go ahead and give in to the temptation.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Phillip said:
As I stated before, if one claiming to be a christian committed any of those sins and never felt the chastening hand of God, never felt remorse for those sins, then how could that person be saved? The Lord chastens whom He loves.
Judgement?
So, you are judging my former pastor and saying that he was never saved? How do you justify this?
There is a whole list of sins in that list that don't get into heaven. Are you saying that we will never commit those as Christians or are you saying that we must ask for forgiveness before we get into heaven. (I'm talking about true Christians only.)
Gotta go to bed. Work comes in about four hours. Gotta shift gears mentally to making big firecrackers.
So, you are judging my former pastor and saying that he was never saved? How do you justify this?
There is a whole list of sins in that list that don't get into heaven. Are you saying that we will never commit those as Christians or are you saying that we must ask for forgiveness before we get into heaven. (I'm talking about true Christians only.)
Gotta go to bed. Work comes in about four hours. Gotta shift gears mentally to making big firecrackers.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
It is not I who judges your former pastor, Philip, it is the Word of God.
Why not? No way can you say that you ask for forgiveness for ever single individual sin you do and will not commit one again without asking forgiveness for it before you die.
Say you spend your life struggling with adultery of the heart and always ask to be forgiven for it, now you’re lying in a hospital bed and your days are drawing near and a beautiful nurse comes in and says, “Hey handsome it’s time for your bath” and your old feeble mind has one last dirty thought and just then you have a heart attack, gasping for air in sheer pain you suddenly die. Do you think to ask to be forgiven for that one last adulterous thought before you signed out? I doubt it! What if a racing heart caused the attack?
Right up to the moment you could have said, “Lord forgive me for committing adultery” and then she says it, you think it, and you die! You could put anything on that list and commit it just as you die. How about hatred, wrath, strife or anything you can’t repent of that fires you up with a bad heart and causes you to die; what’s the difference? You could say, “Lord forgive me for my temper” and yet you get angry and that anger takes your life. You knew you had a bad heart and you pulled the trigger on the heart attack in sin just as if a gun was to your head.
Can you ask for forgiveness of any of these things, or even a simple sin, after the fact?
standingfirminChrist
New Member
If you struggle with adultery you have not given it over to God.
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.
Paul
Interestingly, Paul talked about how he struggled with the flesh on a daily basis.
standingfirm according to your theory he would be saved, then unsaved until he repents on a daily basis.
You cannot tell me that Christians don't commit these sins even on a daily basis. Jesus says if you even look at a woman with lust you have committed adultry. My point is that as long as we are in the flesh, we will sin, even if we fight it and try our best to be Christlike.
I do not appreciate the fact that you say the Bible judges my former pastor. I can tell you with 99.99% certainty that the man was saved. When he went into depression his family didn't recognize it until it was too late and assumed that because he was a pastor he wouldn't have clinical depression.
So you have two theories going here, one of which you have to be assured of:
1. Man does not sin after he is saved.
2. Man does sin and must ask for forgiveness or die and go to hell shooting the OSAS doctrine in the head.
Which one are you saying it is?
Interestingly, Paul talked about how he struggled with the flesh on a daily basis.
standingfirm according to your theory he would be saved, then unsaved until he repents on a daily basis.
You cannot tell me that Christians don't commit these sins even on a daily basis. Jesus says if you even look at a woman with lust you have committed adultry. My point is that as long as we are in the flesh, we will sin, even if we fight it and try our best to be Christlike.
I do not appreciate the fact that you say the Bible judges my former pastor. I can tell you with 99.99% certainty that the man was saved. When he went into depression his family didn't recognize it until it was too late and assumed that because he was a pastor he wouldn't have clinical depression.
So you have two theories going here, one of which you have to be assured of:
1. Man does not sin after he is saved.
2. Man does sin and must ask for forgiveness or die and go to hell shooting the OSAS doctrine in the head.
Which one are you saying it is?
:thumbs: :type: :type: This is what I have gathered from SFIC. He's never answered me on this thread. Perhaps he doesn't want to duel with a female Christian who has been clinically depressed at one point in my life for several years.
1. Once we are saved, we won't sin. We'll be able to work our way through what ever we face through God's will and the Holy Spirit.
2. Commiting suicide is a sin and you're going to hell for it.
3. Anyone depressed, clincally or otherwise is full of hooey. This person is not relying on God to heal them.
This is my stand:
1. Commiting suicide is a sin. Just as looking at someone else in lust is a sin. Commiting suicide is a very selfish act, but not all those that commit suicide are doing it for selfish reasons....truly.
2. I believe OSAS. If I went through life daily wondering if I had done something today to lose my eternal life with my Holy Father then I WOULD BECOME DEPRESSED INSTANTLY!
3. God gave his son to wash our sins white as snow. That does not give me a free ticket to commit adultry or murder. (but you better believe that if someone breaks into my house I won't hesitate to shoot!) However, as Christians we do our very best to "sin-less". But, each and every day we sin whether we want to or not. I will not cast the first stone at ANYONE. I'm grateful that MY GOD in Heaven will be the one judging me for my sins and N
NE ELSE. Also as Christians we will repent of our sins through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. How someone repents after suicide is between that person and God. I will not judge that person or my cousin that I lost to suicide. He was a Christian but was deeply, clincially depressed.
lol...on another thought for some humor...am I allowed to phone a friend or poll the audience on this one??? lol
Have a great day! Each day is a gift! Peace to all of you.
1. Once we are saved, we won't sin. We'll be able to work our way through what ever we face through God's will and the Holy Spirit.
2. Commiting suicide is a sin and you're going to hell for it.
3. Anyone depressed, clincally or otherwise is full of hooey. This person is not relying on God to heal them.
This is my stand:
1. Commiting suicide is a sin. Just as looking at someone else in lust is a sin. Commiting suicide is a very selfish act, but not all those that commit suicide are doing it for selfish reasons....truly.
2. I believe OSAS. If I went through life daily wondering if I had done something today to lose my eternal life with my Holy Father then I WOULD BECOME DEPRESSED INSTANTLY!
3. God gave his son to wash our sins white as snow. That does not give me a free ticket to commit adultry or murder. (but you better believe that if someone breaks into my house I won't hesitate to shoot!) However, as Christians we do our very best to "sin-less". But, each and every day we sin whether we want to or not. I will not cast the first stone at ANYONE. I'm grateful that MY GOD in Heaven will be the one judging me for my sins and N
NE ELSE. Also as Christians we will repent of our sins through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. How someone repents after suicide is between that person and God. I will not judge that person or my cousin that I lost to suicide. He was a Christian but was deeply, clincially depressed.lol...on another thought for some humor...am I allowed to phone a friend or poll the audience on this one??? lol
Have a great day! Each day is a gift! Peace to all of you.
After sitting back and reading that last several pages it seems that SFIC believes in sinless perfection. He continues to butcher the Scripture, the passage of "if I regard inquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me" has nothing to do with salvation. He denies the all sufficient power of the blood of Christ to cleanse us from all sin past, present & future. He presumes to speak for God in the area of judging others. And he is never wrong----Ladies and gentlemen you cannot argue with someone who thinks they have all the answers, who is not open to the possibility that they may not know everything. My suggestion is let it go, before long all will be banging their heads like trotters picture.
God bless to all who want to grow in the grace and wisdom of Jesus. To those who have attained god like status, well I guess you don't need to be blessed.
Bro Tony
God bless to all who want to grow in the grace and wisdom of Jesus. To those who have attained god like status, well I guess you don't need to be blessed.
Bro Tony
Amen to both of you. The thing I especially had a problem with was judging a pastor that I know who did reach the depths of committing suicide. He was clinically depressed and the warning signs were there; people just didn't think a pastor could have depression. This was when I was very young and had trouble understanding it, but I never had any doubt that Jesus took him in His arms and comforted him although the act may have been a sin.
Those who do this are usually crying for help or reaching a point where they cannot stand it any more. Most often this is caused by clinical depression which was once laughed at just like chronic fatigue syndrome and fybromyalgia both of which insurance companies and most doctors who are trained in modern medicine now admit exists.
Those who do this are usually crying for help or reaching a point where they cannot stand it any more. Most often this is caused by clinical depression which was once laughed at just like chronic fatigue syndrome and fybromyalgia both of which insurance companies and most doctors who are trained in modern medicine now admit exists.
saturneptune
New Member
This has truly turned into a sad thread. If a person has this burning desire to believe that suicide is an unforgiveable sin, then that person should join the Roman Catholic Church
standingfirminChrist
New Member
You guys are forgetting one important thing. This should make the calvinist's happy.
God knows the heart. He knew Pharaoh's heart. He knows who harbors that evil sin of suicide in his heart, or who will commit suicide.
Since suicide is murder, and no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him, was the profession of faith that was made 30, 40 years before a true profession of faith? Was it truly effective?
God knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. Many can appear on the outward to be the most pious, the most stalwart of Christians, and yet have hidden sin that they have never ever repented of, even though they made a profession of Christ and walked and talked an outward profession in front of others. Man looks on the outward, but God looks on the heart.
God knows the heart. He knew Pharaoh's heart. He knows who harbors that evil sin of suicide in his heart, or who will commit suicide.
Since suicide is murder, and no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him, was the profession of faith that was made 30, 40 years before a true profession of faith? Was it truly effective?
God knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. Many can appear on the outward to be the most pious, the most stalwart of Christians, and yet have hidden sin that they have never ever repented of, even though they made a profession of Christ and walked and talked an outward profession in front of others. Man looks on the outward, but God looks on the heart.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Bro Tony said:
If one wants to hold onto sin, while making a profession of faith, that one is deceiving himself. God will not hear him.
The only prayer of a sinner God will hear is a repentent prayer, not one that allows one to think he can continue in sin.
And God certainly knew when He hung on the cross that I would one day look at a girl in lust and commit a sin. He knew that I would trust him and he would cleanse me. He knew I would be cleansed from that day forward even if I sinned again. He didn't have to die on the cross twice.standingfirminChrist said:
Yes, I agree that many who think they may be saved may not be, but that is not the debate we have going on here. The debate is whether or not suicide is the unforgiveable sin. If it is, then every other sin on your list is the unforgiveable sin.
What happens if I commit adultry in my heart by looking at a woman and then drop over dead with a heart attack? Did I not get to repent of that? He said He does not let adulterers into heaven, right?
Either you are saying that as a Christian I should be perfect enough not to sin or I'm not saved, one of the two. I reject both and I also reject the Catholic forgiveness before death. When a person is saved their sins are washed as white as snow. Can you not understand what the Bible is saying when it says that murderers will not get into heaven? Can't you see that the entire gospel of Jesus Christ is about the grace He gives us by wiping our sins clean? Past present and future?
Please anwer my question regarding adultry and having a heart attack. Adultry is on your list, do I go to heaven or hell if I don't get a chance to repent? and by the way, I AM a Christian, so don't go and say otherwise because I sin. We are ALL sinners as long as we live in our human bodies.