-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Is the Catholic Church a cult ?
- Thread starter lakeside
- Start date
Mc Cree, you wrote : Give me one example of the church saving a man in the bible. Then I will show you salvation(your interpretation) contradictory to scripture and of works. The church saves no one. Tradition saves no one. Salvation is of the Lord alone.
From the Holy Bible, yes, try reading Matt. 18: 15-18, notice no mention of Bible or Scripture and even if they read Scripture to that lost brother, still the final authority would be His church, of course that would not include any of your non-Catholic churches, because man and woman hadn't invented them yet.
From the Holy Bible, yes, try reading Matt. 18: 15-18, notice no mention of Bible or Scripture and even if they read Scripture to that lost brother, still the final authority would be His church, of course that would not include any of your non-Catholic churches, because man and woman hadn't invented them yet.
This is a good example. The RCC has claimed a history that doesn't belong to it by misinterpreting Scripture to enforce it's false doctrine. It looks back centuries before it's creation and says "hey, this is talking about us!" It redefines "binding and loosing" to suit its needs. Of course it ignores the fact that Matthew 18:15-18 has absolutely nothing to do with the RCC, and is in fact speaking of discipline.
Mat 18:15 But if thy brother sin against thee, go, reprove him between thee and him alone. If he hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he do not hear thee , take with thee one or two besides, that every matter may stand upon the word of two witnesses or of three.
Mat 18:17 But if he will not listen to them, tell it to the assembly; and if also he will not listen to the assembly, let him be to thee as one of the nations and a tax-gatherer.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say to you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on the earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on the earth shall be loosed in heaven.
This is never practiced by the RCC. What happens to the pedophiles and other sex-offender of the RCC? If they are ever disciplined it is only by the Pope directly, never by the local assembly. I have never seen a Catholic assembly take any kind of action on any kind of sinner at all. The policy is not as above stated in the Scripture. Here is the local policy of the RCC:
Confess your sins to a priest.
Do your penance.
Live like the devil the rest of the week.
That is not what is says in Matthew 18, so why even bring it up?
What does this passage say, which I have never witnessed the RCC practice?
If a brother, (a member of a local assembly) offend you (fall into sin) go to him, and tell him of his offence. If he repents you have gained a brother.
If he does not repent then take one or two others with you. Perhaps he will listen in the presence of others. Also in the presence of two or three, every word will be established (not just your word against his).
If he does not repent then his actions must be brought before the assembly, the local church. This would be a business meeting especially called for this purpose. If he does not come or does not repent, then he must be excommunicated--that is treated as a heathen and a publican (tax-collector). These were the most despised and hated people of society. The Jews would not eat or socialize with such people.
The next verse refers to their decision.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say to you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on the earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on the earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them.
--Whatever decision they made on earth is binding, so binding that it is as if it were made in heaven.
Then Christ reinforces it saying that even if the turnout for this meeting had only two or three members, still Christ was in the midst of this decision.
--This kind of discipline can only be carried out by a local church as ours and has nothing to do with the RCC who has nothing to do with such discipline, but rather flaunts it.
There is no denomination in view here, only an assembly, a local church.
a heretick after the second or third admonition reject.
Another gospel of salvation by works
The Rcc is a false religion preaching a false gospel, that understanding was derived from scripture, not History. Here is evidence from their very own official encyclopedia.
The Roman Catholic cult in their Catechism teaches that we can merit grace necessary for salvation and that eternal life is attained by baptism, sacraments, and keeping the commandments.
1. CCC 2010, "...Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life."
2. CCC 2027, "Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods."
3. CCC 2068, "The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."
This obviously faulty teaching in the CCC is hugely problematic since it contradicts Scripture.
1. Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
2. Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
3. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
4. Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
5. Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
6. Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
We have to ask questions.
1. Why is the RCC teaching that you attain salvation through observing the commandments when the Bible says we are saved apart from the works of the Law (Rom. 3:28-30; 4:5; Gal. 2:16)?
2. Why would the Roman Catholic Church teach that you merit for yourself the grace needed for eternal life when that clearly contradicts Rom 11:6? See also Matt 7:21-23.
There is a great deal wrong with what the RCC teaches. We must look to God's word and not to what the RCC says we must do to be saved. Our salvation is not merited by our keeping the commandments! The Roman Catholic Church needs to repent.
The Rcc is a false religion preaching a false gospel, that understanding was derived from scripture, not History. Here is evidence from their very own official encyclopedia.
The Roman Catholic cult in their Catechism teaches that we can merit grace necessary for salvation and that eternal life is attained by baptism, sacraments, and keeping the commandments.
1. CCC 2010, "...Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life."
2. CCC 2027, "Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods."
3. CCC 2068, "The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."
This obviously faulty teaching in the CCC is hugely problematic since it contradicts Scripture.
1. Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
2. Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
3. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
4. Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
5. Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
6. Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
We have to ask questions.
1. Why is the RCC teaching that you attain salvation through observing the commandments when the Bible says we are saved apart from the works of the Law (Rom. 3:28-30; 4:5; Gal. 2:16)?
2. Why would the Roman Catholic Church teach that you merit for yourself the grace needed for eternal life when that clearly contradicts Rom 11:6? See also Matt 7:21-23.
There is a great deal wrong with what the RCC teaches. We must look to God's word and not to what the RCC says we must do to be saved. Our salvation is not merited by our keeping the commandments! The Roman Catholic Church needs to repent.
The problem is that the Rcc does not teach the gospel of scripture, they teach another gospel and are cursed.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Ultimately Lakeside needs to decide between the Word of God and the RCC. That’s the same with anyone who holds to RCC doctrine. AND Lakeside knows this (he has stated as much when discussing how he believes the RCC picked documents to be Scripture). Many RCC cultists have chosen the RCC over Scripture (their reasoning being the RCC is truth when it comes to doctrine while Scripture is man’s inspired but flawed writings). I have friends who fit this category. Believe it or not, I respect that. At least they are honest. My problem is Lakeside is not honest in his belief. I'd much rather dialog with a honest heretic than a dishonest one any day.
The sacraments are a source of the works of men. The are man's invention.
They are works. They are not a means of grace.
Salvation is by grace through faith.
In fact salvation is in Christ alone, by grace alone, through faith alone.
There are no works involved; no sacraments involved; never was.
You put the works of man over the the words of Christ.
The Rcc sacraments are blasphemous, anybody who participates in it spits in Jesus face and says your Atonement was not good enough.
In name, perhaps. I told you my wife's cousin left the Baptists when he "came out of the closet" as being gay. He also became Catholic. Having been a member of a Baptist church does not impress me. You misunderstand what the Church actually is. But you not only demonstrate a lack of understand in regard to the Church, but also to Baptistic doctrine. Maybe you were a "Baptist" as much as you are a "Catholic" (in ignorance) And you are right that we don't have the Sacraments....Like the Church founded in the New Testament, we have Christ. I am not saying become Baptist. I'm saying look to God instead of the RCC.
Last edited by a moderator:
No one who has turned to God could ever misunderstand the Church as you have by your comments on this board. I urge you to read the Bible. Choose what ever version you want. But read God's Word - His revelation - apart from the dogma of the RCC. Other than that, you make your own path.
So, how did the church save anyone there?
A re sacrifice is a disgrace to Jesus.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Then the RCC came along with its LATERAN IV command to "exterminate" and went to formal declared war with that church.
Thankfully some Catholics began to "protest" and there was born the Protestant Reformation trying to reform the "exterminate" oriented RCC.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Walk us through how it was that a "Baptist" decided to pray to the dead and to "imagine" purgatory??
in Christ,
Bob
If you believe that you are eating your god, then you must realise that you are also pooping your god down the toilet, right? Think man think!
Protestant means to protest the Rcc, how could the early Apostles protest the Rcc when it did not even exist? Or as you say, when the Rcc was not on the radar.