is the Catholic Church officially now Apostate?

[DHK]

I've explained the Catholic Position to you before about this very matter and you still don't get it. And the fact that you don't get it is you keep accusing us of both extreems. You accuses us that we are universal and you accuse us that we are exclusive. But I remember explaing the Catholic position to you on another thread and I was very clear. You just didn't want to listen.

The recent statements made by the Vatican don't need "clear" rationalization and "justification" by you, TS.
They are clearly worded and stand by themselves without any confusion.
They are unmistakeably clear.

Rosica advised his fellow Romans to refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church to better understand the Church's teaching on who will be saved and how....
In other words, there is no salvation for anyone, including atheists and Christians of other denominations that are outside of the Roman Catholic Church.
...
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ," said Francis. "All of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!"

The statements don't need clarification. They speak for themselves. They are quite clear. They also contradict each other.
One is exclusive; the other inclusive.
One is universalism.
The other is the mark of a cult: Only Roman Catholics can be saved; just as in only J.W.'s can be saved. No difference.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The recent statements made by the Vatican don't need "clear" rationalization and "justification" by you, TS.
They are clearly worded and stand by themselves without any confusion.
They are unmistakeably clear.

The statements don't need clarification. They speak for themselves. They are quite clear. They also contradict each other.
One is exclusive; the other inclusive.
One is universalism.
The other is the mark of a cult: Only Roman Catholics can be saved; just as in only J.W.'s can be saved. No difference.

You are quite wrong. Let me ask you this. Did Jesus Christ die for everyone? Does Jesus offer salvation to everyone? Is his redemptive plan effecacious for anyone who recieves Christ to be saved? Even if everybody who ever lived, lives, or will live on the face of the earth were to recieve Jesus Christ? If yes then you agree with the Pope.

Now lets follow up. Is there salvation apart from Jesus Christ? If no. Then you agree with the Catholic Church. Both don't contradict each other.

See now wasn't that simple?

 

[DHK]

You are quite wrong. Let me ask you this. Did Jesus Christ die for everyone?

No.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
--He died for the sins of the world.

Does Jesus offer salvation to everyone?

It is an offer, a provision, not a a fait accomplis, as worded by the Pope.

Is his redemptive plan effecacious for anyone who recieves Christ to be saved? Even if everybody who ever lived, lives, or will live on the face of the earth were to recieve Jesus Christ?

Who receives him on the basis of his atoning work on the cross yes.
The Pope said on the basis of doing good works. That was made plain.
The clarification stated on the basis of being a member of the RCC.
Both are heretical.

If yes then you agree with the Pope.

No I don't; never have.

Now lets follow up. Is there salvation apart from Jesus Christ? If no. Then you agree with the Catholic Church. Both don't contradict each other.

See now wasn't that simple?

There is no salvation in the Catholic Church. The site cited said salvation is found ONLY in the RCC. Therefore 99% of all members of this board are lost and on their way to Hell according to the official Vatican statement. We are outside of the RCC, and headed toward perdition.
The statement went from inclusivism to exclusivism.
They are very confused.

 

[Gup20]

know your enemy

Have you guys seen this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=221sYyagu2I&list=PLCED9C361662866BD

It shows the Satanic beginnings and symbols within the Catholic church. Look at this (as well as parts 24 & 25) to see how just how much paganism is in the Catholic cult.

It is like the harlot in Revelation... the false bride who has compromised herself with the worship of Baal and Asherah.

 

[The Biblicist]

Have you guys seen this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=221sYyagu2I&list=PLCED9C361662866BD

It shows the Satanic beginnings and symbols within the Catholic church. Look at this (as well as parts 24 & 25) to see how just how much paganism is in the Catholic cult.

It is like the harlot in Revelation... the false bride who has compromised herself with the worship of Baal and Asherah.

This presentation is well worth watching. He actually provides visual archeologial samples and admissions by prominent Roman Catholics to support his assertions.

 

[Walter]

Have you guys seen this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=221sYyagu2I&list=PLCED9C361662866BD

It shows the Satanic beginnings and symbols within the Catholic church. Look at this (as well as parts 24 & 25) to see how just how much paganism is in the Catholic cult.

It is like the harlot in Revelation... the false bride who has compromised herself with the worship of Baal and Asherah.

Are you people joking? This video is total garbage. It has as much credibility as the video that was posted on this board about the Easter 'Exultet' invoking Satan. I could claim that Constantine invented the Trinity also and that the whole idea was taken from Hinduism.

 

[The Biblicist]

Are you people joking? This video is total garbage. It has as much credibility as the video that was posted on this board about the Easter 'Exultet' invoking Satan. I could claim that Constantine invented the Trinity also and that the whole idea was taken from Hinduism.

This presentation is solid and one proof is your reaction of ridicule void of substance to support your ridicule.

The third video provides confirmation by promient Roman Catholic scholars and prominent authorities.

The very name Easter comes from the goddess of fertility along with the easter eggs and bunnies which are symbols of fertility. So obvious that only a Catholic can't see it.

 

[Gup20]

Are you people joking? This video is total garbage. It has as much credibility as the video that was posted on this board about the Easter 'Exultet' invoking Satan. I could claim that Constantine invented the Trinity also and that the whole idea was taken from Hinduism.

Watch the series from the beginning and you will see he laid down a thorough and Biblical foundation upon which the part of catholocism is built. IF the church is the bride of Christ, then the catholic doctrine is certainly a harlot (the one in Revelation, perhaps) who has corrupted herself with too many pagan beliefs.

 

[saturneptune]

Watch the series from the beginning and you will see he laid down a thorough and Biblical foundation upon which the part of catholocism is built. IF the church is the bride of Christ, then the catholic doctrine is certainly a harlot (the one in Revelation, perhaps) who has corrupted herself with too many pagan beliefs.

As I said in an earlier post that was ignored, the RCC was apostate the day before it was founded.

 

[Bro. James]

Hey, brethren--are we praying for those given over to strong delusion?

We spend more time on Mars Hill than Mt. Calvary.

God does call out of strong delusion--consider Saul of Tarsus.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Yeshua1]

There is a big difference between saying:
"The Lord has provided redemption for us, (that which I believe). He has provided access to them that believe.
and the position that the pope has taken:

The above is universalism and it is heresy.
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/...e=StandFirm&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=link

catholic doctrine says that the ex catholics who turn from catholic truth are condemned, as are Chrsitians who know and deny catholic truth!

 

[Yeshua1]

You are quite wrong. Let me ask you this. Did Jesus Christ die for everyone? Does Jesus offer salvation to everyone? Is his redemptive plan effecacious for anyone who recieves Christ to be saved? Even if everybody who ever lived, lives, or will live on the face of the earth were to recieve Jesus Christ? If yes then you agree with the Pope.

Now lets follow up. Is there salvation apart from Jesus Christ? If no. Then you agree with the Catholic Church. Both don't contradict each other.

See now wasn't that simple?

Did the death of Jesus redeem all mankind, so that the Lord will save even those who deny the jesus that died?

Pope says yes, do you?

 

[DHK]

Did the death of Jesus redeem all mankind, so that the Lord will save even those who deny the jesus that died?

Pope says yes, do you?

No. He did not redeem all mankind. That is universalism.
To redeem means to pay the purchase price.
But that is only the first step.
It is pictured in the Book of Ruth.
Boaz redeemed the land of Naomi, Naomi herself, and her daughter, Ruth.
In doing so he took them to himself. If redemption is to take place the price must be paid and the possession must be claimed. Naomi and Ruth went willingly with Boaz after the transaction was made.

Christ made the purchase price. But only those who go willingly are redeemed.

 

[Yeshua1]

No. He did not redeem all mankind. That is universalism.
To redeem means to pay the purchase price.
But that is only the first step.
It is pictured in the Book of Ruth.
Boaz redeemed the land of Naomi, Naomi herself, and her daughter, Ruth.
In doing so he took them to himself. If redemption is to take place the price must be paid and the possession must be claimed. Naomi and Ruth went willingly with Boaz after the transaction was made.

Christ made the purchase price. But only those who go willingly are redeemed.

Francis either is another Robb Bell, or else a Hyper Cal, who thinks ALL are elct in Christ!

Catholic karl barth?

 

[Walter]

Walter is correct: the Catholic Church has always taught that everyone is redeemed by the Blood of Christ (which is akin to saying that "Christ died for all", with which only a hardcore Calvinist would disagree); it has also always taught that there is a difference between redemption and salvation: all are redeemed, not all are saved. Where +++Francis seems to have additionally muddied the waters is impliedly referencing Karl Rahner's (another Jesuit!) 'anonymous Christian' concept.

Bumping this thread for those wanting confused about the pope's statement.