Is the CBF poised for a shift on homosexuality?

[gb93433]

I question the idea that churches are spending too much time bashing homosexuality at the expense of evangelism and witnessing. This suggests that defending the faith and evangelizing the lost are mutually exclusive choices--that if you do one, you can't do the other.

(If one were to go to www.archive.org he could do a search for books and pamphlets for Mormonism, the Islam of America. Seems that did little good considering what is happening today.

 

[Salty]

Which statement is more true:

1. Evangelical churches spend too much time bashing homosexuality at the expense of evangelism and witnessing

2. Those who are pro-homosexual think and / or believe that Evangelical churches spend too much time bashing homosexuality

 

[Michael Wrenn]

True enough, Michael, but do you take the same stand on all other sins of the flesh?

Yes.

Why not spend our time giving folks the WHOLE law and then the gospel?

If we managed to stop all gay activity tomorrow, it wouldn't add one iota to the population of heaven for eternity.

It might.

And how many lost people don't think they are sinners because they don't do "those things?"

The Great Commission doesn't tell us to go and stop gay activism, or stop alcohol use, or stop abortion, or any other hot button issue.

Actually, I believe it does. Christianity is a religion of faith but also one of ethics and morals. Christians are obligated to stand for the sanctity of life.

It tells us to go and make disciples. I have a hunch those He has truly regenerated don't spend near as much time doing all those no no's.

And a disciple should strive to live a holy life and promote holiness.

Truly, Satan has managed to hamstring us by getting us to focus on changing society from the outside in.

Only lasting change will come from the inside out as a RESULT of salvation, not a cause FOR salvation.

Any church that starts to dialog on homosexual practice and considers voting on it has already abandoned the faith.

 

[saturneptune]

You are absolutely right. Satan loves to get the Christian busy and consumed with correcting the bad while leaving behind the lost and those who truly want help.

I am glad to see a post we agree on. The SBC is just a man made organization, and not very effective or powerful at that. Really, it would cease to exist if enough local churches voted to quit the organization. Really, all we need is the Gospel. As was said, Paul did not order the latest, handy, dandy Sunday School material for the quarter. Some of the comments and choice of focal passages are really off the wall, but that is another subject. There is nothing wrong with man made programs to spread the Gospel, but they are not sacred.

I see the subject of this op as a sign of the general deterioration of our society, and it is affecting the church. To even consider such, as one poster said, says the battle has already been lost.

I have had to remove myself from threads involving Mitt Romney in the political section, as it makes my blood boil for a Christian to support a pro gay rights, pro abortionist, cult member for President.

I am not an expert on the connection of any of these events, but it seems to me, when any Christian organization, whether a local church, or a group of New Testement churches consider such questions, and at the same time we are being forced to vote between two people for President has a pro gay rights, pro abortion agenda for President of this nation that God has so richly blessed, that we are on a downward death spiral at warp speed. I see all these events as very connected.

 

[TCGreek]

This is a bad article that has a "political" agenda behind it.

Listen, I'm not a fan of the CBF. They left the SBC but seem to desire to come back and take back control for their own pursuits.

That said, this is a terrible article. One of the sad truths that happens in SBC life (for about the past 10 years now) is that many leaders, when challenged on issues, have used monikers of "liberal" "heretic" or even identified the individual(s) as homosexual sympathizers. (One immediate example came from when Dr Patterson called for the dissolving of the relationship between the SBC and the BWA, specifically on the grounds that the BWA worked with a group from Portland called the Evergreen Assocation that had open propagration of homosexual theological agendas on their website. This was a false claim)

Essentially if the leadership in the SBC doesn't like you they use any combination or development on these terms to attempt to dismiss your claims. BPNews is a chief partaker in this trend. BPNews is yellow journalism at its worst.

The funniest part of the article is that line several have quoted: "in protest of the [SBC's] return to orthodox theology." That is just revisionist history if I've ever heard it. Lots of the leaders in the CBF left because they got fired from their positions by leaders of the Resurrgence who, often, took over those positions themselves (or staffed them with their buddies.) If anybody doesn't think that that Conservative Resurrgence wasn't at least 50% about power they're kidding themselves.

Now the leadership in the SBC (I guess because they're bored...they've shot all the enemy and are now turning on the wounded) wants to go after the CBF and put the final nail in the coffin. This is a bad strategy. Just let the group die out on their own. They aren't a sustainable organization and are slowly going the way of the dodo bird. Why this article now? The CBF has no voice whatsoever.

Just a sad example of paultry journalism. I'm embarrassed that my home convention would put out this tripe.

Well put....

 

[nodak]

Also worth noting than the passage in Romans 1 dealing with the gay issue sees such perversion as a symptom, not the cause, of a sick society.

Michael--I'm curious about one thing. How do you figure preventing this particular sin from happening would get anyone into heaven? How is it different, than say, lying?

I wish nobody did either sin, but we cannot work our way into heaven!

 

[Baptist Believer]

If the CBF changes its position to allow practicing homosexuals to be employed by the Fellowship, that will be the end of the Fellowship as we know it. All the conservative churches will withdraw support and it will die or merge with the Alliance of Baptists.

What is interesting here is that the Southern Baptist leads hip is suddenly acknowledging that the CBF has long held a biblical position on homosexuality and is only now in danger of losing it. I don't know how many times over the years, and often in this forum, we have been told that the CBF endorses homosexuality.

 

[go2church]

If the CBF changes its position to allow practicing homosexuals to be employed by the Fellowship, that will be the end of the Fellowship as we know it. All the conservative churches will withdraw support and it will die or merge with the Alliance of Baptists.

What is interesting here is that the Southern Baptist leads hip is suddenly acknowledging that the CBF has long held a biblical position on homosexuality and is only now in danger of losing it. I don't know how many times over the years, and often in this forum, we have been told that the CBF endorses homosexuality.

Yeah, I'm confused as to why those in the CBF don't just go and join the Alliance of Baptists instead of trying to challenge and change a long held conviction of the CBF.

At least one thing I've learned in dealing with the SBC leadership is history means nothing, especially if the history contradicts what I'm saying or trying to do today. It's a good point that you make about SBC leadership "letting slip" that the CBF has had a Biblical position all along.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Stefan said...

Or we could tone down the rhetoric and say the same thing.

There isn't anything wrong with saying something like:

"God's word clearly indicates that the only appropriate context for sexual intimacy is in a marriage between a man and a woman. All other forms or expressions of sexuality, including homosexuality and promiscuity, are sinful."

Which is basically what I said. It is a hideous perversion

We all should stand firm for biblical truth, but it's also important to remember that not every person who deals with this issue is a vocal activist. Some people struggle with this issue but want to have someone help them and encourage them to remain faithful to God's word.

I agree.....

 

[HAMel]

Hey! What happened to..., "Warning: No Threads Regarding Human Sexuality Are Allowed in This Open Public Forum"

Does being homosexual involve human sexuality?

...just asking. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[StefanM]

Which is basically what I said. It is a hideous perversion

The problem is that "hideous perversion" is far more inflammatory. IMO, we already have enough fuel on the fire as-is.

 

[mandym]

Focus on Jesus, interpret the Bible with humility, speakers tell sexuality conference

An update on the meeting in the op:

By Ken Camp, Managing Editor
Published: April 19, 2012
ATLANTA—Christians who want to hear God’s voice—particularly when it comes to difficult issues regarding sexuality—need to approach the Scriptures with humility and a desire to know the heart and mind of Christ, speakers told participants at a [Baptist] Conference on Sexuality and Covenant...

...Sayles pointed to the story in the New Testament book of Acts describing the encounter between Philip the evangelist and the Ethiopian eunuch—a man who sought God even though he never would be welcome in the Jewish temple.

The eunuch’s reading of the Old Testament left him confused about whether a person rendered physically incapable of sexual intimacy could be welcomed by God. Philip responded by telling the Ethiopian the story of Jesus. ..

...“Instead of putting people out of the church for certain sexual behaviors, what if we put everybody in the church into small groups with strict confidentiality requirements? When people know each other and care for each other over time, they tend to have more courage to confront each other about the gaps in their lives between what they profess and how they behave.”

“We could begin with the recognition that people who have a legal license to engage in sexual intimacy need transformation and sanctification just a much as the rest of us do,” she said.

http://www.baptiststandard.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13717&Itemid=53

 

[mandym]

It now seems that BP was not so far off.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

This is just a bunch of mealy-mouthed gobbledy-gook. These people seem to be heading down the same path that some United Methodists, Presbyterians, and Episcopalians have headed down, talking about discernment and listening for God's voice about this matter. Well, God has already spoken on the matter -- in creation and scripture; He didn't create Adam and Steve.

When any church or group of churches starts debating and trying to "discern" morality, it's the beginning of the end.

If the CBF does change its position, I'll never give them another cent, just as I won't give the SBC a cent of my money now. I care not for any brand of fundamentalism -- not of the right nor the left. Seems like the middle is becoming extinct.

 

[Yeshua1]

An update on the meeting in the op:








http://www.baptiststandard.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13717&Itemid=53

When did God grant a "legal license' to sin though?

 

[Yeshua1]

The problem is that "hideous perversion" is far more inflammatory. IMO, we already have enough fuel on the fire as-is.

IF we keep this to the "mind of Christ"...

He would say thatHe died for their sins, that he loves them, but that he wants to change them so that they will be able to say in this area "sin no more"...

 

[Michael Wrenn]

IF we keep this to the "mind of Christ"...

He would say thatHe died for their sins, that he loves them, but that he wants to change them so that they will be able to say in this area "sin no more"...

Ah, but you see, that's the rub. These people are working their way to saying that homosexual practice is not a sin because God created them that way. But no homosexual gene has ever been discovered -- and the practicing homosexual "Gene" ordained bishop by the Episcopal Church doesn't count.

 

[mandym]

Ah, but you see, that's the rub. These people are working their way to saying that homosexual practice is not a sin because God created them that way. But no homosexual gene has ever been discovered -- and the practicing homosexual "Gene" ordained bishop by the Episcopal Church doesn't count.

Well said, something we agree on. Let's not share that.

 

[Jerome]

Mohler Predicts Division in CBF ""It’s going to be very interesting to see how this issue unfolds in the CBF," Mohler said. He predicted that an upcoming [Baptist] Conference on Sexuality and Covenant co-sponsored by CBF and Mercer University "is likely just to be a start, the public start, of a very divisive conversation.""


On a related note, Mohler interviewed President Jimmy Carter several weeks ago on his podcast. Carter teaches Sunday School at a Cooperative Baptist Fellowship of Georgia church. Baptist Press: Jimmy Carter Discusses Views on Biblical Inspiration, Gospel Exclusivity, Homosexuality

Last year he told Georgia journalist Jonathan Merritt (son of SBC President James Merritt) that the churches should face the facts that "we've lied about the nature of homosexuality and have practiced what can only be described as a form of homophobia" and "is clear that sexual orientation is a deep inner struggle and not merely a matter of choice".

 

[Squidward]

Serious evangelism question when speaking with a homosexual. Do you try to win them stating that homosexual acts are a sin or do you win them to Christ first and then counsel them that they have to turn from the sin?