Is the Church of Christ a cult?

[JonC]

That's not what I said. I said the Unitarians, Progressives and such are false churches. Yes there may be false converts in legit denominations and churches that you mentioned but I never write letters to those churches for I do not know.

Thanks for the clarification.

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[evangelist6589]

I would not be so legalistic as to claim that there are no saints among the Church of Christ, or Catholics or ...

But that does not mean I endorse the errors taught within those denominations.

It also does not mean that I think all in any denomination are all saints.

Never mind the Church of Christ, but Catholicism is another religion, as well as Unitarian Universalism, and Progressive Christianity. It sure sounds like you need to read a book on the essentials of the faith.

Essential Doctrines on the Christian Faith by RC Sproul

My review of it.

This book is great for the new Christian, or for those wanting to sharpen up on understanding basic doctrines, or for those wanting to mature in their walk with Christ. The book is written from a Reformed point of view, but by no means does the author claim the book is only for Reformed, or that only Reformed know the essentials of the faith. Its a bit less detailed as the book "Everyone's a Theologian" but it covers many of the same topics. The book covers essential Christian doctrines such as:

Divine Revelation
The Nature and Attributes of God
The Trinity
The works and decrees of God
Jesus Christ and his divinity, humanity, the virgin birth, etc.
The Holy Spirit
Human beings and the fall, original sin, Satan, demons, syncretism, etc.
Salvation or soteriollogy
The church and sacraments
The end times
Spirituality and living in this age (Christian living).

You may want to read the book cover to cover, or just read the topics that you need to refresh on. As for me I love evangelism & apologetics, and books like this one are quite helpful because it defines what a Christian really is. I have spoken with many that claim the name of Christ, and claim the name of Christian, yet deny the Trinity, deny original sin, deny the virgin birth, deny the gospel, or some other vital doctrine. Can someone be a christian and yet deny these doctrines? Only God knows for sure but this book will help you grasp the fundamentals of the faith. My only gripe about this book is the lack of a topical index in the back, but besides that a book that every christian should have.

 

[JonC]

Never mind the Church of Christ, but Catholicism is another religion, as well as Unitarian Universalism, and Progressive Christianity. It sure sounds like you need to read a book on the essentials of the faith.

Essential Doctrines on the Christian Faith by RC Sproul

My review of it.

This book is great for the new Christian, or for those wanting to sharpen up on understanding basic doctrines, or for those wanting to mature in their walk with Christ. The book is written from a Reformed point of view, but by no means does the author claim the book is only for Reformed, or that only Reformed know the essentials of the faith. Its a bit less detailed as the book "Everyone's a Theologian" but it covers many of the same topics. The book covers essential Christian doctrines such as:

Divine Revelation
The Nature and Attributes of God
The Trinity
The works and decrees of God
Jesus Christ and his divinity, humanity, the virgin birth, etc.
The Holy Spirit
Human beings and the fall, original sin, Satan, demons, syncretism, etc.
Salvation or soteriollogy
The church and sacraments
The end times
Spirituality and living in this age (Christian living).

You may want to read the book cover to cover, or just read the topics that you need to refresh on. As for me I love evangelism & apologetics, and books like this one are quite helpful because it defines what a Christian really is. I have spoken with many that claim the name of Christ, and claim the name of Christian, yet deny the Trinity, deny original sin, deny the virgin birth, deny the gospel, or some other vital doctrine. Can someone be a christian and yet deny these doctrines? Only God knows for sure but this book will help you grasp the fundamentals of the faith. My only gripe about this book is the lack of a topical index in the back, but besides that a book that every christian should have.

What would you make of Erasmus (a 16th century Catholic priest)? Do you think he was beyond salvation because he was Catholic...or was his refusal to abandon the Catholic Church as he distanced himself from Luther a sign he had never been saved?

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[evangelist6589]

What would you make of Erasmus (a 16th century Catholic priest)? Do you think he was beyond salvation because he was Catholic...or was his refusal to abandon the Catholic Church as he distanced himself from Luther a sign he had never been saved?

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I don't know in that case but Catholicism is another gospel.

 

[JonC]

I don't know in that case but Catholicism is another gospel.

I would agree that Catholicism is not the Christian religion (or at least Catholic dogma overshadows and alters biblical doctrine). But sometimes the term "another gospel" is thrown about a bit carelessly. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I am saying that I am not certain that you have shown many of these groups (the OP concerned CoC) to hold onto another gospel rather than to hold false teachings about the gospel.

 

[evangelist6589]

I would agree that Catholicism is not the Christian religion (or at least Catholic dogma overshadows and alters biblical doctrine). But sometimes the term "another gospel" is thrown about a bit carelessly. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I am saying that I am not certain that you have shown many of these groups (the OP concerned CoC) to hold onto another gospel rather than to hold false teachings about the gospel.

Catholic theology has a different view on Justification. The bible teaches justification by faith alone. Unitarians deny Christ as being the only way to salvation and progressives deny the gospel.

Once I mailed a gospel tract with the gospel to a progressive pastor. I spoke with him on the phone and he disliked the tract because he dislikes the gospel.

 

[BobRyan]

Never mind the Church of Christ, but Catholicism is another religion, as well as Unitarian Universalism, and Progressive Christianity. It sure sounds like you need to read a book on the essentials of the faith.

Essential Doctrines on the Christian Faith by RC Sproul

I have been listening to R.C. Sproul for a long time now - and never heard him argue that the Catholic faith is not a Christian religion - but is some other religion like Hindu or Buddhist.

Have you???

(Not that I take him as "pope" but I do find him to be correct on a great many topics)

You keep pointing to doctrinal error and I keep agreeing that it is error. But your statement is that this is not enough - that more must be said about a given denomination not even being called a Christian denomination that teaches error - but "worse than error" I think is where you are trying to go.

(BTW - this thread is title - Is the Church of Christ a Cult?-)

 

[evangelist6589]

I have been listening to R.C. Sproul for a long time now - and never heard him argue that the Catholic faith is not a Christian religion - but is some other religion like Hindu or Buddhist.

Have you???

(Not that I take him as "pope" but I do find him to be correct on a great many topics)

You keep pointing to doctrinal error and I keep agreeing that it is error. But your statement is that this is not enough - that more must be said about a given denomination not even being called a Christian denomination that teaches error - but "worse than error" I think is where you are trying to go.

(BTW - this thread is title - Is the Church of Christ a Cult?-)

I never said the Catholic faith is another religion like Hindu or Buddhist, but it definitely commits significant error in its view of Justification and yes I have heard RC critique Catholicism.

 

[BobRyan]

I never said the Catholic faith is another religion like Hindu or Buddhist, but it definitely commits significant error in its view of Justification and yes I have heard RC critique Catholicism.

Yes they have error - and yes RC does critique that error - but he never says "this is not a Christian denomination".

Your arguments so far have been that simply pointing out doctrinal error is not enough. One must come up with some other term or category such as a new Hindu religion that is "cult" so it is not Christian. But that means nothing to most observers who admit that even in Islam there are slices/sects/groups - yet still they are dealing with the Quran and Mohammed - and so it is a discussion about some form of Islam.

 

[JonC]

Catholic theology has a different view on Justification. The bible teaches justification by faith alone. Unitarians deny Christ as being the only way to salvation and progressives deny the gospel.

Once I mailed a gospel tract with the gospel to a progressive pastor. I spoke with him on the phone and he disliked the tract because he dislikes the gospel.

Anabaptists and some Reformed Calvinists have a different view of Justification (NT Wright comes to mind). Come to think of it, free-will baptists and Nazarene's have different views of justification. Do they hold to a different gospel? In other words, while I agree that the object of one's faith must be Christ, is salvation itself dependent on how we understand justification?

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes they have error - and yes RC does critique that error - but he never says "this is not a Christian denomination".

Your arguments so far have been that simply pointing out doctrinal error is not enough. One must come up with some other term or category such as a new Hindu religion that is "cult" so it is not Christian. But that means nothing to most observers who admit that even in Islam there are slices/sects/groups - yet still they are dealing with the Quran and Mohammed - and so it is a discussion about some form of Islam.

He may be wrong on this one. Check out a book on the topic by James White or Ron Rhodes.

What RC says:
“The Roman Catholic view affirms that justification is by faith, but denies that it is by faith alone, adding good works as a necessary condition.”

Excerpt From: R. C. Sproul. “Essential Truths of the Christian Faith.” Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 2010-11-29. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itun.es/us/bNaaC.l

 

[evangelist6589]

Anabaptists and some Reformed Calvinists have a different view of Justification (NT Wright comes to mind). Come to think of it, free-will baptists and Nazarene's have different views of justification. Do they hold to a different gospel? In other words, while I agree that the object of one's faith must be Christ, is salvation itself dependent on how we understand justification?

Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. Christians agree on this one. Does NT Wright?

 

[JonC]

Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. Christians agree on this one. Does NT Wright?

Yes. But he differs from msny on the meaning of justification.

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[BobRyan]

He may be wrong on this one. Check out a book on the topic by James White or Ron Rhodes.

What RC says:
“The Roman Catholic view affirms that justification is by faith, but denies that it is by faith alone, adding good works as a necessary condition.”

Excerpt From: R. C. Sproul. “Essential Truths of the Christian Faith.” Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 2010-11-29. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itun.es/us/bNaaC.l

I would never doubt that RC believes that the RCC is wrong on some doctrines -- I have repeatedly said that I think he does have differences with the RCC on some doctrines. But does he say "this is not a Christian denomination"?

 

[evangelist6589]

I would never doubt that RC believes that the RCC is wrong on some doctrines -- I have repeatedly said that I think he does have differences with the RCC on some doctrines. But does he say "this is not a Christian denomination"?

They can't be they are false. No he may not spell it out for you.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes. But he differs from msny on the meaning of justification.

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Explain his meaning.

 

[JonC]

Explain his meaning.

Briefly, Wright believes that God's righteousness refers to His own covenant faithfulness (God's faithfulness to His promise to Abraham). The question, then, is not one of moral righteousness (which would be the 16th century Reformed understanding) but of identifying who is in the family of God (who is in that covenant relationship...which would be how the 1st century Christian understood justification).

 

[BobRyan]

They can't be they are false. No he may not spell it out for you.

I see - so he says that this or that doctrine that they hold is in error - but does not come out with "so they are not a Christian church" or "they are not one of the Christian denominations"??

No wonder I like to listen to his sermons.

 

[evangelist6589]

I see - so he says that this or that doctrine that they hold is in error - but does not come out with "so they are not a Christian church" or "they are not one of the Christian denominations"??

No wonder I like to listen to his sermons.

Oh for the love of the rabbit! He may be wrong on his view of Catholicism if he does not label them as a false religion. In the meantime I suggest you do some reading.

http://www.pro-gospel.org/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=180066646&sec_id=180014816

John MacArthur
http://www.gty.org/resources/distinctives/DD09/roman-catholicism

"It is a false and deceptive form of Christianity."

"As long as the Roman Catholic Church continues to assert its own authority and bind its people to “another gospel,” it is the spiritual duty of all true Christians to oppose Roman Catholic doctrine with biblical truth and to call all Catholics to true salvation"

 

[evangelist6589]

Briefly, Wright believes that God's righteousness refers to His own covenant faithfulness (God's faithfulness to His promise to Abraham). The question, then, is not one of moral righteousness (which would be the 16th century Reformed understanding) but of identifying who is in the family of God (who is in that covenant relationship...which would be how the 1st century Christian understood justification).

Hmm interesting. Mac does not speak too well of NT Wright and I wonder if its for good reasons but yet I do not know. I have one of his books on the end times but I may need to buy another one of his books, perhaps on this topic. Can you name a title?