Is the DEATH sentence Biblical, or should America end it completely?

[Zaac]

Should this guy get the death penalty? He killed his girl friend and their 5 month old baby and while in jail tried to hire a hit man (another inmate) to kill a witness.

http://www.wcti12.com/news/da-goes-after-death-penalty-in-murders-of-mother-baby/37750694

I'm a firm believer that he should not because of the grace and mercy Christ showed us on The Cross.

I'm BIBLICALLY guilty of breaking the same whole of the law that he has, yet Christ has shown me mercy instead of giving me the death I so deserve.

So it would behoove me to be okay with exacting a punishment upon someone else who broke the same Law that I did, but I, as a Christian, say kill him while Christ has shown me mercy.

It's the sort of thing, with good reason, that makes people view Christians poorly.

Pro-life HAS TO BE pro-life for everyone or else it really means nothing as a Christian, IMO.

 

[Gold Dragon]

If we really believe the Holy Spirit can bring about repentance and God can forgive the worst of sinners, should we cut short that person's opportunity to repent?

The death sentence is biblical and just. But if we really understood justice, we would understand that it is just for all of us to die. And yet we have grace. From the victim's family's perspective, it may or may not give closure to their pain, but it certainly won't change the past. But maybe since we are on this side of Christ, we can see how giving someone time to repent and turn their life around might have some value?

The list of murderers in the Bible is pretty long as well and includes Moses, David and probably Paul.

 

[Don]

How many people must be murdered before we decide or admit that a murderer is unrepentent, and will most likely murder again?

I am NOT pro-life; I am anti-abortion. Just as "pro-choice", in context of the argument in which people label themselves, is actually "pro-abortion" (you can't say you're against abortion, but support someone else's choice to have one; that's still supporting abortion).

So what's the answer? Simply lock them up and feed and care for the unrepentent murderer for the rest of his/her life? Doesn't that violate "if you don't work, you don't eat"?

If you could show me a system that would make the convicted murderer a productive member of society, I'd be interested in examing that further.

 

[Gold Dragon]

How many people must be murdered before we decide or admit that a murderer is unrepentent, and will most likely murder again?

How many murders does it take for a murderer to qualify as unrepentant or unforgiveable by God? 1, 2 .. 5? How do we know that a murderer will never repent? Can you tell by looking at them or by how many murders they have committed so far?

If you remove the death penalty, life imprisonment is still available to prevent them from murdering again, or at least folks outside the prison system.

Simply lock them up and feed and care for the unrepentent murderer for the rest of his/her life? Doesn't that violate "if you don't work, you don't eat"?

If you could show me a system that would make the convicted murderer a productive member of society, I'd be interested in examing that further.

I agree that life imprisonment is expensive. Many prisoners do work to support the prison system which is quite a lucrative source of labour for corporations. But I don't see how that factors into whether the death sentence is moral, right or biblical. The "expensive to keep alive" argument is the same argument that some people use to justify euthanasia of the elderly.

I believe that the death penalty is just, biblical and cost effective. I'm just not sure it is the best position given what we believe about repentance and grace.

 

[Alcott]

Pro-life HAS TO BE pro-life for everyone or else it really means nothing as a Christian, IMO.

How loudly did you cry when we took our revenge against osama bin laden?

 

[just-want-peace]

If the man's conviction is also on the grounds of the testimony of at least two witnesses, then I do not see why the crime would not justify the death penalty.

A man rapes a teen, then kills her - NO witnesses. However, forensic data yields DNA evidence of John Doe being the rapist/killer.
No conviction in this case, since NO witnesses?????

Not trying to be obtuse, but just asking you to clarify your stance more clearly.

 

[Rippon]

I bet some European nations may reinstitute the death penalty.

 

[JonC]

A man rapes a teen, then kills her - NO witnesses. However, forensic data yields DNA evidence of John Doe being the rapist/killer.
No conviction in this case, since NO witnesses?????

Not trying to be obtuse, but just asking you to clarify your stance more clearly.

I could not in good conscious support the death penalty as being biblical in that case. I believe the command for two witnesses means two actual people giving testimony (even in the OT they had evidences of crimes). So I would convict the man, but I could not justify taking his life on biblical grounds.

My stance on this issue is that the biblical reason behind justifying capital punishment (that man is made in Gods image) is also the reason not to exceed biblical ground when considering the death penalty. Scripture requires two witnesses and it is not up to me to rationalize away that requirement.

So before we even discuss the death penalty from a Christian standpoint it seems logical to me that the conditions required by God have been met, and without two witnessed they haven't.

Sent from my TARDIS

 

[Zaac]

How loudly did you cry when we took our revenge against osama bin laden?

I had prayed often for Osama Bin Laden's salvation if he had not already been saved. And upon hearing the news about him, the honest first thing that popped into my head was "I pray to God that somehow he got to hear the Gospel and make a decision for Christ if he had not already done so."

I don't believe that we, as forgiven Christians, should be encouraging the taking of anybody's life. And IMO, any Christian who believes otherwise needs to pause and take a very long look at The Cross.

 

[Zaac]

How many murders does it take for a murderer to qualify as unrepentant or unforgiveable by God? 1, 2 .. 5? How do we know that a murderer will never repent? Can you tell by looking at them or by how many murders they have committed so far?

If you remove the death penalty, life imprisonment is still available to prevent them from murdering again, or at least folks outside the prison system.



I agree that life imprisonment is expensive. Many prisoners do work to support the prison system which is quite a lucrative source of labour for corporations. But I don't see how that factors into whether the death sentence is moral, right or biblical. The "expensive to keep alive" argument is the same argument that some people use to justify euthanasia of the elderly.

I believe that the death penalty is just, biblical and cost effective. I'm just not sure it is the best position given what we believe about repentance and grace.

Post Cross, I would disagree.

 

[Don]

How many murders does it take for a murderer to qualify as unrepentant or unforgiveable by God? 1, 2 .. 5? How do we know that a murderer will never repent? Can you tell by looking at them or by how many murders they have committed so far?

If you remove the death penalty, life imprisonment is still available to prevent them from murdering again, or at least folks outside the prison system.

I agree that life imprisonment is expensive. Many prisoners do work to support the prison system which is quite a lucrative source of labour for corporations. But I don't see how that factors into whether the death sentence is moral, right or biblical. The "expensive to keep alive" argument is the same argument that some people use to justify euthanasia of the elderly.

I believe that the death penalty is just, biblical and cost effective. I'm just not sure it is the best position given what we believe about repentance and grace.

"Best position" - no, not at all. It is something that is grave, somber, and *should* affect us deeply. It is NOT something we should not be encouraging; but we are stewards of that which God has given us, and we must weigh our responsibility as stewards into the equation.

 

[Rolfe]

My opinion only. Those who oppose the death penalty because they claim to value life devalue innocent life.

 

[Zaac]

My opinion only. Those who oppose the death penalty because they claim to value life devalue innocent life.

My opinion is that it's unBiblical to think that any life is innocent of sin and therefore less worthy of the same death as every other sinner.

The ground is level at the foot of the Cross.

 

[JonC]

My opinion only. Those who oppose the death penalty because they claim to value life devalue innocent life.

Hey Rolf. When you say that your opinion is that those who oppose the death penalty in truth devalues innocent life, I can think of a few possible reasons for your statement. You could be saying that the death penalty provides justice for victims of these crimes, that it removes a threat from society, or that it provides a strong deterrent against such actions (or, of course, other reasons entirely). In what way do you view an opposition to the death penalty as devaluing innocent life?

 

[Alcott]

The ground is level at the foot of the Cross.

Not if those pictures I've seen of Calvary are the real thing.

 

[TCassidy]

The death penalty is biblical. But the application of the death penalty by our government controlled justice system is anything but "equal justice under the law."

The death penalty is applied way too irregularly for me. It has already been mentioned that the more money you have the less likely you will receive the death penalty.

However, if your skin is black or brown you are way more likely to receive a sentence of death.

If your capital crime involves the use/sale of crack cocaine (the drug of choice for the Hispanic/African-American community) you are 20 times more likely to receive a sentence of death than if your capital crime involves the use/sale of powdered cocaine (the drug of choice of the rich white community).

Scriptural but not equal in application.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Post Cross, I would disagree.

I would agree with you that post Cross we need to consider the primacy of grace in any discussion of judgement because of our own grace. My position on this issue is essentially the same as yours.

But I would not call grace the same thing as justice and in fact grace is by definition unjust. Justice is to receive that which we deserve. Grace is to receive that which we do not deserve.

Whether the modern justice system is really just in its application of the death penalty and even the greater question of whether justice is really the purpose of the justice system is an entirely different discussion.

But as individuals who have experienced grace, if we really see our own sin and our forgiveness the way God sees it, we would not think we are that different from murderers justly deserving of the death penalty. And hopefully we see that grace extended to us should also be extended to them.

I do not expect the secular political and justice systems we live in to consider this aspect, but I would hope individual Christians do.

 

[Zaac]

I would agree with you that post Cross we need to consider the primacy of grace in any discussion of judgement because of our own grace. My position on this issue is essentially the same as yours.

But I would not call grace the same thing as justice and in fact grace is by definition unjust. Justice is to receive that which we deserve. Grace is to receive that which we do not deserve.

Whether the modern justice system is really just in its application of the death penalty and even the greater question of whether justice is really the purpose of the justice system is an entirely different discussion.

But as individuals who have experienced grace, if we really see our own sin and our forgiveness the way God sees it, we would not think we are that different from murderers justly deserving of the death penalty. And hopefully we see that grace extended to us should also be extended to them.

I do not expect the secular political and justice systems we live in to consider this aspect, but I would hope individual Christians do.

The mic has been dropped!!!

 

[righteousdude2]

I had prayed often for Osama Bin Laden's salvation if he had not already been saved. And upon hearing the news about him, the honest first thing that popped into my head was "I pray to God that somehow he got to hear the Gospel and make a decision for Christ if had not already done so."

I don't believe that we, as forgiven Christians, should be encouraging the taking of anybody's life. And IMO, any Christian who believes otherwise needs to pause and take a very long look at The Cross.

I'll bet you did!

 

[Zaac]

I'll bet you did!

I said I did so why would anyone accept that bet?