Good grief how stupid does this have to get?
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Is the KJV shown proper respect by avoiding the truth?
- Thread starter Logos1560
- Start date
Good grief how stupid does this have to get?
He's never going to let it go! It's his whole life, it seems.
If you mean agreeing to the Cardinal doctrines, yes, but Evangelical otherwise!
What is teresting on this subject is that one side appeals to textual criticism, and other to feelings and emotions!
The KJVO is a cultic like group that needs t!o be exposed for the frauds they are
What is your take on the MEV and New Geneva and New Ylt?
Well, I am on the side of textual criticism. I see that Ankerberg dealt with this subject in broadcasts 25 years ago, which is where I first heard of it. I thought that the KJV-Only people lost the debate badly but from what you are saying it has just gone behind closed doors.
Logos is not speaking to you as Kjv preferred, but to the Cult of the KJVO!
At its extreme, I think KJVO is cultic. Some "cultic" signs:
--17th century "re-inspiration" through the KJV translators.
--Correcting the Greek manuscripts according to the KJV.
--Asserting that unless the KJV was used while presenting the Gospel, no one can come to salvation.
There are probably others.
They hold an absolute and rigid unprovable viewpoint!
I myself dismiss that as just plain ignorance instead of cultic. I myself tend to cut IFB some slack because they have been fighting for the fundamentals of the faith for such a long time and we all have benefited.
Baptist Board itself recognizes 5 strains of KJVO according to this post, some of which do not reach those extremes. The first two on your list, I believe, emanate from the extremism of Peter Ruckman. I would consider the first heretical and the last at least ignorant. The last on your list was taught by Jack Hyles in his latter ministry, and is also heretical. Since this view touches on the Gospel and salvation, I would also tend to view it as cultic.
Any teaching that would say there is only 1 valid english translation, and that it is perfect is suspect!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Some of us that use the "KJV" to the exclusion of most others, do not view the newer English translations and those who use them, as what you may think.
We tend to view the entire situation as one of, "well, if you're persuaded to use that, then go ahead. We'll stick with the AV until such time as a more faithful and modern translation is produced."
Many of us that are "KJV Only", as you seem to refer to us, maintain that the situation with English translations is a complicated one.
We are well aware that the AV is not perfect.
Rather, we contend that it is, within the confines of the English terms in use at the time of it's development, far superior is quality and faithfulness to the Greek collated text that we are also equally convinced is the preserved word of God...the "Textus Receptus"...and that it is far preferable, despite its "outdated" language;
Especially when compared to the myriad of newer translations being produced for the past 150 years.
Unfortunately and despite being shown time and again, people who oppose what we try to show them still label us as a cult... when all we're trying to do is get people to see the details of why we have settled on using the "KJV" in these last days.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
I believe I know where the misunderstanding keeps happening with regard to "KJV Only".
Many people here, and in other forums I have visited, think we are a "cult", and think that we are trying to force people to use what they are not persuaded to use.
This is untrue, at least for me and many others who I agree with.
The issue is one of manuscripts and translation technique, not with trying to force people to use something they do not wish to use.
In the end, every professing believer has the right and privilege to use whatever they want.
Those of us that are persuaded that the TR underlying the AV is the correct Greek Text, as well as the Ben Chayyim Masoretic Text being the correct Hebrew collated text, are convinced that we already have the best and most faithful translation in our own language that we're likely to get this side of Christ coming again.
Men being men and God being God, many of us who are "KJV Only" firmly believe that the Lord used the men who developed the "KJV", as you call it, to make a very good and very faithful translation of His word into our language.
We don't encourage people to look at the varying manuscripts and other evidences because we want to "pull the wool" over anyone's eyes...
Quite the contrary.
We wish people to look at who is involved in the translation process, what it is resulting in ( 4+ billion dollars of Bible sales annually, with most of that money making the publishing companies very rich ) and what changes are being made to what has been widely accepted as the word of God in English for over 400 years now.
Partiality doesn't have to be shown to anyone...in truth, you and other readers of this thread have the right to go your way, and we will go ours.
We will follow our conscience, and you can follow yours.
Again, "proper respect" isn't something we are looking for ( if I haven't said it already ), at least not to those of us that contend that someone is trying to re-invent the wheel when it comes to Bible translations.
Many of us that are "KJV Only", as we are known, are well aware of the details concerning its making.
We are also well aware of the details of the making of the NASB, for example, as well as the making of the NIV, the ASV, the RSV and many others.
But given the marked divisions regarding differing subjects on just this forum alone, it doesn't surprise me in the least that this subject keeps coming up.
However, at the end of the day, you and anyone else that reviews what we have to present has the right and privilege to disagree, and we respect that.
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A faithful and modern English translation in present-day English has been produced.
The fact that you are unwilling to apply the same measures/standards to the KJV that you in effect apply to other English Bibles in suggesting and asserting that they are not faithful translations indicates erroneous human KJV-only reasoning.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, but we doubt it.
Many of us see something a bit more serious at work now, than what was at work in the making of Bible translations then.
No, not from our perspective.
Also, to me it's very apparent that not all "KJVO / KJVP" are up on the details...many simply get involved with the hype and don't do the research into why the differences in most modern translations exist, when comparing those to Reformation-era English translations.
Perhaps not to your satisfaction, but to mine it has.
For example, if my AV was taken from me and all I had was a choice between the ESV, NIV, NLT and an NKJV, I would pick the NKJV every time.
But given a choice between the NKJV and the KJV, I would pick the latter every time.
As I see it, there are all sorts of things flying around in an effort to discredit the AV as being the word of God.
To me, the truth is this:
Instead of believers being led into one standard, perfected and modern English translation, the wheel keeps turning...
And the same opposing arguments keep being made, while there is no resolution to the never-ending process of "newer = better".
My question is, "Are we there yet"?
As long as this roller coaster keeps running, my question will always be, "Are we there yet?"
English has not changed markedly in well over 50 years, at least in America.
So why all the dozens of English translations if not to confuse and trouble God's children ( Ephesians 2:2, Ephesians 6:12, Galatians 1:6-7, 1 Peter 5:8 ) by our adversary?
I'm sorry sir, but I think you know where I stand.
I stay with what I know is the best "version", until such time as the Lord shows me a better one.
May God bless you and yours, always.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Which one would that be?
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
" Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
2 to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, [but] gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." ( Titus 3:1-7 ).