Is the KJV the only Bible Christians should use?

[Yeshua1]

Here are some of Origen's Beliefs:

- Origen believed that man was divine.

- He believed in the pre-existence of souls

- He taught that everyone, including the Devil, would eventually be saved.

- He described the Trinity as a "hierarchy," not as an equality of Father, Son, and Spirit.

- He believed in baptismal regeneration.

- He believed in purgatory.

- He taught that the Holy Spirit was the first creature made by God.

- He believed Christ was created.

- He taught transmigration (this is the belief that at death the soul passes into another body).

- He denied a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation, taught that it was a "myth" and taught that there was no actual person named "Adam."

- He taught that Christ "became" God at His baptism.

- He taught, based on Matthew 19, that a true man of God should be castrated, which he did to himself.

- He denied the physical resurrection of believers.

So Westcott and Hort, who we find have backgrounds in occultic/mystic dabblings favored the Alexandrian text because of the mystical or gnostic bent, which Origen used when working with the text. He interpreted scripture allegorically and developed certain doctrines with similarities to Neo-Pythagorean and Neo-Platonist thought. Origen wrote that the soul passes through successive stages of incarnation before eventually reaching God. He imagined even demons being reunited with God. For Origen, God was the First Principle, and Christ, the Logos, was subordinate to him. Thus we see why the newer biblical translations that come from the text corrupted have changes and omissions especially concerning the divinity of Christ......

See that you have been drinking the ole KJVO koolaid here regarding the Alexandrian text, eh?

 

[Hobie]

See that you have been drinking the ole KJVO koolaid here regarding the Alexandrian text, eh?

Its in all the history, you dont have to look hard. Here is more I came across on the description of the Gnosticisms corruption of the Alexandrian Manuscripts:

"Please note that the word "Christian" is between quotation marks. By using the quotation marks I am indicating to the reader that I am saying that the "Christianity" of the Gnostics is not really Christianity at all. In fact, the only way that the Gnosticism that I am speaking of can be considered Christian is in the sense that they scrounged words, writings and ideas from Christianity, and then redefined, rearranged, edited and rewrote them to fit their own purposes and to advance their own false teachings. I present this paper to you, so that you will realize that the "scholarly" community is all in a frenzy about the so called Gnostic Gospels, and are in the process of rewriting early Christian History with a Gnostic spin to reflect the findings at Nag Hammadi Egypt and the recently discovered Gospel of Judas. I trust this information will be helpful. Let me tell you a little bit about the Nag Hammadi manuscripts...

The Gnostic Discovery at Nag Hammadi Egypt & The Da Vinci Code
Nag Hammadi is a village in Egypt near the Nile River. In 1945 Six Bedouin camel drivers were digging for fertilizer when one of them uncovered a human skeleton. Next to the skeleton was an earthenware jar. Inside the jar, they found thirteen leather-bound volumes containing fifty-two treatises, hence they were called the Nag Hammadi codices. This library of ancient documents, dated around 350 AD contained texts relating to an early Christian Heresy called Gnostacism. Dan Brown's book titled The Da Vinci Code falsely characterizes these writings as "the earliest Christian records" and the "unaltered gospels."

These thirteen leather-bound volumes contained fifty-two treatises including - The Gospel of Thomas and Philip. They also found the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles, A letter of Peter to Philip and the Apocalypse of Peter and Paul. In his book The Gnostic Discoveries, Marvin Meyer makes it clear all of the writings were Gnostic in nature, and they were all written in Coptic. Now, there is another important fact you need to know. The Nag Hammadi texts were all written in the second and third centuries AD. In The Da Vinci Code, Teabing claims that the Nag Hammadi texts are "the earliest Christian records DVC p.245. The truth is that every book in the New Testament was written in the first century AD!In fact, Gnostic beliefs did not begin to be mixed with Christianity until about 150 AD and so-called Christian Gnostic sects virtually disappeared by the 6th century. The only known exception was the Mandaean sect of Iran/Iraq.

There is also something further I should draw to your attention. Scholars regard the Gnostic gospels as not genuine, spurious, counterfeit.

• A Brief Definition and Explanation of Gnosticism

Peter Jones, professor of New Testament at Westminster Seminary California and director of Christian Witness to a Pagan Planet says this about Gnosticism -
"Gnosticism is formed from the Greek term gnosis meaning knowledge, but it means here a particular form of knowledge, namely spiritual experience.' Like all pagan spirituality, so-called Christian' Gnosticism engages in sacred technologies' (occult meditations, chanting mantras, drumming, etc.) to access the higher, spiritual self, the self that is part of God. In this essentially out-of-body experience, all physical and this-worldly restraints, like rational thinking and a sense of specific gender, fall away. In a word, the experience of enlightenment' is both the rejection of the goodness of the physical creation and an acquisition of the knowledge of the divinity of the human soul." Basically, Gnostics see the human soul as divine. You look within for God.

There was no consensus on a Gnostic canon of scriptures. Gnostic groups had no scruples about rewriting and adapting other religions sacred writings to fit their fancy. Many of their own works were circulated in different versions. Various sects had their own preferred rendition. Further, Gnostic groups had no unified doctrinal statement within Gnostic groups. In fact, the Nag Hummadi find revealed that a variety of different beliefs existed among different groups and individuals. For instance, some taught celibacy and others did not....

Purposeful efforts to alter and corrupt the New Testament began almost immediately after each Gospel and letter were written.

Turn to "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ." The word corrupt here is a translation of the Greek word kaphleuontev - kapaleuontes (kap-ale-loo-entace) which means a huckster. One scholar said this about the word - The word was used to describe shady "wine-dealers playing tricks with their wines; mixing the new, harsh wines, so as to make them pass for old. They not only sold their wares in the market, but had wine-shops all over the town..." where then peddled their corrupt wine claiming it was genuine. They made a bundle of money by their deception.

So how is this word used in reference to the Word of God? Gnostic hucksters, and others, took the pure word of God and, like the shady wine dealers, mixed in their own philosophies, opinions and perversions and they peddled it all over as the real thing.... "Christian" Gnosticisms Corruptions

 

[robycop3]

Its in all the history, you dont have to look hard. Here is more I came across on the description of the Gnosticisms corruption of the Alexandrian Manuscripts:

"Please note that the word "Christian" is between quotation marks. By using the quotation marks I am indicating to the reader that I am saying that the "Christianity" of the Gnostics is not really Christianity at all. In fact, the only way that the Gnosticism that I am speaking of can be considered Christian is in the sense that they scrounged words, writings and ideas from Christianity, and then redefined, rearranged, edited and rewrote them to fit their own purposes and to advance their own false teachings. I present this paper to you, so that you will realize that the "scholarly" community is all in a frenzy about the so called Gnostic Gospels, and are in the process of rewriting early Christian History with a Gnostic spin to reflect the findings at Nag Hammadi Egypt and the recently discovered Gospel of Judas. I trust this information will be helpful. Let me tell you a little bit about the Nag Hammadi manuscripts...

The Gnostic Discovery at Nag Hammadi Egypt & The Da Vinci Code
Nag Hammadi is a village in Egypt near the Nile River. In 1945 Six Bedouin camel drivers were digging for fertilizer when one of them uncovered a human skeleton. Next to the skeleton was an earthenware jar. Inside the jar, they found thirteen leather-bound volumes containing fifty-two treatises, hence they were called the Nag Hammadi codices. This library of ancient documents, dated around 350 AD contained texts relating to an early Christian Heresy called Gnostacism. Dan Brown's book titled The Da Vinci Code falsely characterizes these writings as "the earliest Christian records" and the "unaltered gospels."

These thirteen leather-bound volumes contained fifty-two treatises including - The Gospel of Thomas and Philip. They also found the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles, A letter of Peter to Philip and the Apocalypse of Peter and Paul. In his book The Gnostic Discoveries, Marvin Meyer makes it clear all of the writings were Gnostic in nature, and they were all written in Coptic. Now, there is another important fact you need to know. The Nag Hammadi texts were all written in the second and third centuries AD. In The Da Vinci Code, Teabing claims that the Nag Hammadi texts are "the earliest Christian records DVC p.245. The truth is that every book in the New Testament was written in the first century AD!In fact, Gnostic beliefs did not begin to be mixed with Christianity until about 150 AD and so-called Christian Gnostic sects virtually disappeared by the 6th century. The only known exception was the Mandaean sect of Iran/Iraq.

There is also something further I should draw to your attention. Scholars regard the Gnostic gospels as not genuine, spurious, counterfeit.

• A Brief Definition and Explanation of Gnosticism

Peter Jones, professor of New Testament at Westminster Seminary California and director of Christian Witness to a Pagan Planet says this about Gnosticism -
"Gnosticism is formed from the Greek term gnosis meaning knowledge, but it means here a particular form of knowledge, namely spiritual experience.' Like all pagan spirituality, so-called Christian' Gnosticism engages in sacred technologies' (occult meditations, chanting mantras, drumming, etc.) to access the higher, spiritual self, the self that is part of God. In this essentially out-of-body experience, all physical and this-worldly restraints, like rational thinking and a sense of specific gender, fall away. In a word, the experience of enlightenment' is both the rejection of the goodness of the physical creation and an acquisition of the knowledge of the divinity of the human soul." Basically, Gnostics see the human soul as divine. You look within for God.

There was no consensus on a Gnostic canon of scriptures. Gnostic groups had no scruples about rewriting and adapting other religions sacred writings to fit their fancy. Many of their own works were circulated in different versions. Various sects had their own preferred rendition. Further, Gnostic groups had no unified doctrinal statement within Gnostic groups. In fact, the Nag Hummadi find revealed that a variety of different beliefs existed among different groups and individuals. For instance, some taught celibacy and others did not....

Purposeful efforts to alter and corrupt the New Testament began almost immediately after each Gospel and letter were written.

Turn to "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ." The word corrupt here is a translation of the Greek word kaphleuontev - kapaleuontes (kap-ale-loo-entace) which means a huckster. One scholar said this about the word - The word was used to describe shady "wine-dealers playing tricks with their wines; mixing the new, harsh wines, so as to make them pass for old. They not only sold their wares in the market, but had wine-shops all over the town..." where then peddled their corrupt wine claiming it was genuine. They made a bundle of money by their deception.

So how is this word used in reference to the Word of God? Gnostic hucksters, and others, took the pure word of God and, like the shady wine dealers, mixed in their own philosophies, opinions and perversions and they peddled it all over as the real thing.... "Christian" Gnosticisms Corruptions

Actually, they huckstered by PEDDLING the WOG as if it was one of a number of books of magic, they also used to sell. "Corrupting" would be CHANGING it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Its in all the history, you dont have to look hard. Here is more I came across on the description of the Gnosticisms corruption of the Alexandrian Manuscripts:

"Please note that the word "Christian" is between quotation marks. By using the quotation marks I am indicating to the reader that I am saying that the "Christianity" of the Gnostics is not really Christianity at all. In fact, the only way that the Gnosticism that I am speaking of can be considered Christian is in the sense that they scrounged words, writings and ideas from Christianity, and then redefined, rearranged, edited and rewrote them to fit their own purposes and to advance their own false teachings. I present this paper to you, so that you will realize that the "scholarly" community is all in a frenzy about the so called Gnostic Gospels, and are in the process of rewriting early Christian History with a Gnostic spin to reflect the findings at Nag Hammadi Egypt and the recently discovered Gospel of Judas. I trust this information will be helpful. Let me tell you a little bit about the Nag Hammadi manuscripts...

The Gnostic Discovery at Nag Hammadi Egypt & The Da Vinci Code
Nag Hammadi is a village in Egypt near the Nile River. In 1945 Six Bedouin camel drivers were digging for fertilizer when one of them uncovered a human skeleton. Next to the skeleton was an earthenware jar. Inside the jar, they found thirteen leather-bound volumes containing fifty-two treatises, hence they were called the Nag Hammadi codices. This library of ancient documents, dated around 350 AD contained texts relating to an early Christian Heresy called Gnostacism. Dan Brown's book titled The Da Vinci Code falsely characterizes these writings as "the earliest Christian records" and the "unaltered gospels."

These thirteen leather-bound volumes contained fifty-two treatises including - The Gospel of Thomas and Philip. They also found the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles, A letter of Peter to Philip and the Apocalypse of Peter and Paul. In his book The Gnostic Discoveries, Marvin Meyer makes it clear all of the writings were Gnostic in nature, and they were all written in Coptic. Now, there is another important fact you need to know. The Nag Hammadi texts were all written in the second and third centuries AD. In The Da Vinci Code, Teabing claims that the Nag Hammadi texts are "the earliest Christian records DVC p.245. The truth is that every book in the New Testament was written in the first century AD!In fact, Gnostic beliefs did not begin to be mixed with Christianity until about 150 AD and so-called Christian Gnostic sects virtually disappeared by the 6th century. The only known exception was the Mandaean sect of Iran/Iraq.

There is also something further I should draw to your attention. Scholars regard the Gnostic gospels as not genuine, spurious, counterfeit.

• A Brief Definition and Explanation of Gnosticism

Peter Jones, professor of New Testament at Westminster Seminary California and director of Christian Witness to a Pagan Planet says this about Gnosticism -
"Gnosticism is formed from the Greek term gnosis meaning knowledge, but it means here a particular form of knowledge, namely spiritual experience.' Like all pagan spirituality, so-called Christian' Gnosticism engages in sacred technologies' (occult meditations, chanting mantras, drumming, etc.) to access the higher, spiritual self, the self that is part of God. In this essentially out-of-body experience, all physical and this-worldly restraints, like rational thinking and a sense of specific gender, fall away. In a word, the experience of enlightenment' is both the rejection of the goodness of the physical creation and an acquisition of the knowledge of the divinity of the human soul." Basically, Gnostics see the human soul as divine. You look within for God.

There was no consensus on a Gnostic canon of scriptures. Gnostic groups had no scruples about rewriting and adapting other religions sacred writings to fit their fancy. Many of their own works were circulated in different versions. Various sects had their own preferred rendition. Further, Gnostic groups had no unified doctrinal statement within Gnostic groups. In fact, the Nag Hummadi find revealed that a variety of different beliefs existed among different groups and individuals. For instance, some taught celibacy and others did not....

Purposeful efforts to alter and corrupt the New Testament began almost immediately after each Gospel and letter were written.

Turn to "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ." The word corrupt here is a translation of the Greek word kaphleuontev - kapaleuontes (kap-ale-loo-entace) which means a huckster. One scholar said this about the word - The word was used to describe shady "wine-dealers playing tricks with their wines; mixing the new, harsh wines, so as to make them pass for old. They not only sold their wares in the market, but had wine-shops all over the town..." where then peddled their corrupt wine claiming it was genuine. They made a bundle of money by their deception.

So how is this word used in reference to the Word of God? Gnostic hucksters, and others, took the pure word of God and, like the shady wine dealers, mixed in their own philosophies, opinions and perversions and they peddled it all over as the real thing.... "Christian" Gnosticisms Corruptions

What doctrines have the Nas and Esv and Nkjv then have either denied, or watered down?

 

[MarysSon]

The pagan system of worship was around you mean, in the ancient empire of Rome and it tried to take over all the other areas and centers of Christianity and thats why you see the different names which were basicially ancient cults of pagan worship, thats basically what they are.

A Liturgical Rite is "Pagan"??
This, I GOTTA hear.

Please explain - with historical EXAMPLES.
I'll wait right here as you fumble around for a response . . .

 

[MarysSon]

The bigger the lie, the more tend to think there is some truth to it, but Christ or His disciples did not use a Septuagint as their daily Bible or quote from it in their discourse in the New Testament. The LXX or Septuagint version as you well know is claimed to be a translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into the Greek language for the Greek speaking Jews of Alexandria. However, there are no manuscripts pre-dating the third century A.D. to validate the claim that Jesus or Paul quoted a Greek Old Testament and why would Christ, when preaching to the Jews of Palestine, use a Greek version designed for the Greek speaking Jews of Alexandria Egypt.

The quotes of Jesus or Paul in new versions today may match readings in the Septuagint, because new versions are from the exact same Minority Text based on the Alexandrian Codices, the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Alexandrinus which are of the 5th century way past the time of Christ and clearly shown to be corrupted.

What a desperately idiotic argument.

Ummmmm, in case you didn't know - there are NO extant 1st century manuscripts of the New Testament.
According to YOUR logic - that means the ENTIRE NT is "null and void". What a load of manure . . .

According to OT scholar Otto Kaiser, the Deuterocanonical books “Presuppose the validity of the Law and the Prophets and also utilize the Ketubim, or ‘Writings’ collection, which was, at the time, still in the process of formation and NOT YET CLOSED.”

As a matter of, the Dead Sea Scrolls, which contain Jewish writings from the years 400 B.C. to A.D. 100, INCLUDE copies of Deuterocanonicals like Sirach, Tobi, and Baruch, which indicates that they were considered to be part of the Writings.

Do your HOMEWORK, son . . .

 

[Hobie]

A Liturgical Rite is "Pagan"??
This, I GOTTA hear.

Please explain - with historical EXAMPLES.
I'll wait right here as you fumble around for a response . . .

What is the main object of worship of the Roman Papal Church.. the same as the ancient pagan worship of the Roman Empire... Idols and the same type of rites and sacraments they had before...its not hard to figure out.

 

[Hobie]

What a desperately idiotic argument.

Ummmmm, in case you didn't know - there are NO extant 1st century manuscripts of the New Testament.
According to YOUR logic - that means the ENTIRE NT is "null and void". What a load of manure . . .

According to OT scholar Otto Kaiser, the Deuterocanonical books “Presuppose the validity of the Law and the Prophets and also utilize the Ketubim, or ‘Writings’ collection, which was, at the time, still in the process of formation and NOT YET CLOSED.”

As a matter of, the Dead Sea Scrolls, which contain Jewish writings from the years 400 B.C. to A.D. 100, INCLUDE copies of Deuterocanonicals like Sirach, Tobi, and Baruch, which indicates that they were considered to be part of the Writings.

Do your HOMEWORK, son . . .

I think I have my sister...

So lets continue...so why would anyone try to pass of these 4th century translations based on corrupted Alexandrian manuscripts as what Jesus was using. ...

"In his book An Understandable History Of The Bible, Rev. Samuel Gipp writes of Codex Sinaiticus: Quote: "One of the MSS is called Sinaiticus and is represented by the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet, Aleph. This MS from all outward appearances looks very beautiful. It is written in book form (codex) on vellum. It contains 147 1/2 leaves. The pages are 15" by 13 1/2" with four columns of 48 lines per page. It contains many spurious books such as the 'Shepherd of Hermes,' the 'Epistle of Barnabas' and even the Didache.

The great Greek scholar, Dr Scrivener, points this out in his historic work A Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus. He speaks of correctional alterations made to the MS: 'The Codex is covered with such alterations... brought in by at least ten different revisers, some of them systematically spread over every page, others occasional or limited to separated portions of the MS, many of these being contemporaneous with the first writer, but the greater part belonging to the sixth or seventh century.' " (Ref:B5)
Codex Vaticanus (B)

The second major manuscript of the Minority Textis known as Codex Vaticanus, often referred to as 'B'. This codex was also produced in the 4th century. It was found over a thousand years later in 1481 in the Vatican library in Rome, where it is currently held. It is written on expensive vellum, a fine parchment originally from the skin of calf or antelope. Some authorities claim that it was one of a batch of 50 Bibles ordered from Egypt by the Roman Emperor Constantine; hence its beautiful appearance and the expensive skins which were used for its pages. But alas! this manuscript, like its corrupt Egyptian partner Sinaiticus (Aleph) is also riddled with omissions, insertions and amendments.


Of Codex Vaticanus Samuel Gipp writes on page 72: Quote: "This codex omits many portions of Scripture vital to Christian doctrine. Vaticanus omits Genesis 1.1 through Genesis 46:28; Psalms 106 through 138; Matthew 16:2,3; Romans 16:24; the Pauline Pastoral Epistles; Revelation; and everything in Hebrews after 9:14.
It seems suspicious indeed that a MS possessed by the Roman Catholic church omits the portion of the book of Hebrews which exposes the 'mass' as totally useless (Please read Hebrews 10:10-12). The 'mass' in conjunction with the false doctrine of purgatory go hand-in-hand to form a perpetual money making machine for Rome. Without one or the other, the Roman Catholic Church would go broke!
It also omits portions of the Scripture telling of the creation (Genesis), the prophetic details of the crucifixion (Psalm 22), and, of course, the portion which prophesies of the destruction of Babylon (Rome), the great whore of Revelation chapter 17. Vaticanus , though intact physically, is found to be in poor literary quality. Dr Martin declares, 'B' exhibits numerous places where the scribe has written the same word or phrase twice in succession. Dr J Smythe states, 'From one end to the other, the whole manuscript has been travelled over by the pen of some… scribe of about the tenth century.' If Vaticanus was considered a trustworthy text originally, the mass of corrections and scribal changes obviously render its testimony highly suspicious and questionable."


Rev. Gipp continues on page 73: Quote: "The corrupt and unreliable nature of these two MSS (Sinaiticus and Vaticanus) is best summed up by one who has thoroughly examined them, John W Burgon: 'The impurity of the text exhibited by these codices is not a question of opinion but fact...In the Gospels alone, Codex B(Vatican) leaves out words or whole clauses no less than 1,491 times. It bears traces of careless transcriptions on every page… If we are to be thorough and discriminatory in our evaluation of the true New Testament text, then we must not -- we cannot -- overlook these facts.' How did these MSS come into being? How did it happen that they should be beautiful to the eye, yet within contain such vile and devastating corruption? It seems that these uncial MSS along with the papyrus MSS included in this category all resulted from a revision of the true, or Universal Text. This revision was enacted in Egypt by Egyptian scribes! " (Ref:B6)

Rev. Gipp continues:
Quote: "So we see that once a pure copy of the Universal Text (Textus Receptus) had been carried down into Egypt, it was recopied. During the process of this recopying, it was revised by men who did not revere it as truly the Word of God. This text was examined by the critical eye of Greek philosophy and Egyptian morals. These men saw nothing wrong with putting the Book in subjection to their opinion instead of their opinion being in subjection to the book. This process produced a text which was local to the educational centre of Alexandria, Egypt. This text went no further than southern Italy where the Roman Catholic Church found its unstable character perfect for overthrowing the true Word of God which was being used universally by the true Christians." (Ref:B7)
The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has this to say about Codex Vaticanus (B) on page 624 under the article Versions. Quote: " It should be noted, however, that there is no prominent Biblical MS. in which there occur such gross cases of misspelling, faulty grammar, and omission, as in B." (Ref:H2)
Barry Burton comments further: Quote: "For one thing…Vaticanus and Sinaiticus disagree with each other over 3000 times in the gospels alone…
Facts about the Vaticanus. "It was written on fine vellum (tanned animal skins) and remains in excellent condition. It was found in the Vatican Library in 1481 AD. In spite of being in excellent condition, it omits Genesis 1:1-Gen.46:28, Psalm 106-138, Matt.16:2-3, the Pauline pastoral Epistles, Hebrews 9:14-13:25, and all of Revelation. These parts were probably left out on purpose." "Besides all that - in the gospels alone it leaves out 237 words, 452 clauses and 748 whole sentences, which hundreds of later copies agree together as having the same words in the same places, the same clauses in the same places and the same sentences in the same places... The Vaticanus was available to the translators of the King James Bible, but they did not use it because they knew it is unreliable." (Ref:C2)
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/kjv/part1-4.html

 

[Hobie]

n his book Revision Revised Dean Burgon wrote, over a hundred years ago, concerning the ages of Codices Vatican (B) and Sinai (Aleph): Quote: "Lastly, - We suspect that these two Manuscripts are indebted for their preservation, solely to their ascertained evil character, which has occasioned that the one eventually found its way, four centuries ago, to a forgotten shelf in the Vatican library; while the other, after exercising the ingenuity of several generations of critical Correctors, eventually (viz. in A.D. 1844) got deposited in the waste-paper basket of the Convent at the foot of mount Sinai. Had B and Aleph been copies of average purity, they must long since have shared the inevitable fate of books which are freely used and highly prized; namely, they would have fallen into decadence and disappeared from sight." (Ref: P1)

In short these two codices are old simply because:

• First: They were written on extremely expensive and durable antelope skins.
• Second:They were so full of errors, alterations, additions and deletions, that they were never used by true believers and seldom even by their own custodians. Thus they had little chance of wearing away.

Origen wrote his Hexapla two hundred years after the life of Christ and the apostles. So in the new versions which are based on the codices Origen used like the NIV, the changes that were done in the New Testament and Old Testament quotes may match Origen text as he used the Alexandrian codices. Origen rewrote both Old and New Testament and changed or deleted the text to suit his ideas and Gnostic leanings. So the new versions take the Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, and Alexandrinus manuscripts, which are in basically, Origens Hexapla, and change the traditional Masoretic Old Testament text to match these. The preface of the Septuagint out today points out that the stories surrounding the B.C. (before Christ) creation of the Septuagint (LXX) and the existence of a Greek Old Testament are not true and are based on fables.

So all of the Septuagint manuscripts cited in the concordance of the Septuagint today were written after A.D. 200 and are linked to Origens Hexapla. The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethicselaborates, calling "the letter of the pseudo- Aristeas, a manifest forgery and the fragments of Aristobulus highly suspect." It also points out many of the LXXs Gnostic and changes in the readings.....

The truth is that there is no pre-Christian era Septuagint (OT Greek Translation) that was allegedly translated from the Hebrew OT in Alexandria, Egypt in the third century B. C., which the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles used...."
The Character Of God's Words

 

[MarysSon]

What is the main object of worship of the Roman Papal Church.. the same as the ancient pagan worship of the Roman Empire... Idols and the same type of rites and sacraments they had before...its not hard to figure out.

Answer: the Triune Godhead.

Soooooo, this is what YOU deem to be "idolatry"??
Interesting . . .

 

[MarysSon]

n his book Revision Revised Dean Burgon wrote, over a hundred years ago, concerning the ages of Codices Vatican (B) and Sinai (Aleph): Quote: "Lastly, - We suspect that these two Manuscripts are indebted for their preservation, solely to their ascertained evil character, which has occasioned that the one eventually found its way, four centuries ago, to a forgotten shelf in the Vatican library; while the other, after exercising the ingenuity of several generations of critical Correctors, eventually (viz. in A.D. 1844) got deposited in the waste-paper basket of the Convent at the foot of mount Sinai. Had B and Aleph been copies of average purity, they must long since have shared the inevitable fate of books which are freely used and highly prized; namely, they would have fallen into decadence and disappeared from sight." (Ref: P1)

In short these two codices are old simply because:

• First: They were written on extremely expensive and durable antelope skins.
• Second:They were so full of errors, alterations, additions and deletions, that they were never used by true believers and seldom even by their own custodians. Thus they had little chance of wearing away.

Origen wrote his Hexapla two hundred years after the life of Christ and the apostles. So in the new versions which are based on the codices Origen used like the NIV, the changes that were done in the New Testament and Old Testament quotes may match Origen text as he used the Alexandrian codices. Origen rewrote both Old and New Testament and changed or deleted the text to suit his ideas and Gnostic leanings. So the new versions take the Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, and Alexandrinus manuscripts, which are in basically, Origens Hexapla, and change the traditional Masoretic Old Testament text to match these. The preface of the Septuagint out today points out that the stories surrounding the B.C. (before Christ) creation of the Septuagint (LXX) and the existence of a Greek Old Testament are not true and are based on fables.

So all of the Septuagint manuscripts cited in the concordance of the Septuagint today were written after A.D. 200 and are linked to Origens Hexapla. The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethicselaborates, calling "the letter of the pseudo- Aristeas, a manifest forgery and the fragments of Aristobulus highly suspect." It also points out many of the LXXs Gnostic and changes in the readings.....

The truth is that there is no pre-Christian era Septuagint (OT Greek Translation) that was allegedly translated from the Hebrew OT in Alexandria, Egypt in the third century B. C., which the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles used...."
The Character Of God's Words

Ummmmm, Dean Burgon was a 19th century anti-Catholic with an ax to grind.
Chick Publications - the home of the infamous Jack Chick's highly-debunked series of rabid anti-Catholic tracts and comic books, including his laughably false "Alberto" series, describes Burgeron as:
"An outstanding 19th century Bible scholar."

'Nuff said . . .

 

[MarysSon]

I think I have my sister...

So lets continue...so why would anyone try to pass of these 4th century translations based on corrupted Alexandrian manuscripts as what Jesus was using. ...

"In his book An Understandable History Of The Bible, Rev. Samuel Gipp writes of Codex Sinaiticus: Quote: "One of the MSS is called Sinaiticus and is represented by the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet, Aleph. This MS from all outward appearances looks very beautiful. It is written in book form (codex) on vellum. It contains 147 1/2 leaves. The pages are 15" by 13 1/2" with four columns of 48 lines per page. It contains many spurious books such as the 'Shepherd of Hermes,' the 'Epistle of Barnabas' and even the Didache.

The great Greek scholar, Dr Scrivener, points this out in his historic work A Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus. He speaks of correctional alterations made to the MS: 'The Codex is covered with such alterations... brought in by at least ten different revisers, some of them systematically spread over every page, others occasional or limited to separated portions of the MS, many of these being contemporaneous with the first writer, but the greater part belonging to the sixth or seventh century.' " (Ref:B5)
Codex Vaticanus (B)

The second major manuscript of the Minority Textis known as Codex Vaticanus, often referred to as 'B'. This codex was also produced in the 4th century. It was found over a thousand years later in 1481 in the Vatican library in Rome, where it is currently held. It is written on expensive vellum, a fine parchment originally from the skin of calf or antelope. Some authorities claim that it was one of a batch of 50 Bibles ordered from Egypt by the Roman Emperor Constantine; hence its beautiful appearance and the expensive skins which were used for its pages. But alas! this manuscript, like its corrupt Egyptian partner Sinaiticus (Aleph) is also riddled with omissions, insertions and amendments.


Of Codex Vaticanus Samuel Gipp writes on page 72: Quote: "This codex omits many portions of Scripture vital to Christian doctrine. Vaticanus omits Genesis 1.1 through Genesis 46:28; Psalms 106 through 138; Matthew 16:2,3; Romans 16:24; the Pauline Pastoral Epistles; Revelation; and everything in Hebrews after 9:14.
It seems suspicious indeed that a MS possessed by the Roman Catholic church omits the portion of the book of Hebrews which exposes the 'mass' as totally useless (Please read Hebrews 10:10-12). The 'mass' in conjunction with the false doctrine of purgatory go hand-in-hand to form a perpetual money making machine for Rome. Without one or the other, the Roman Catholic Church would go broke!
It also omits portions of the Scripture telling of the creation (Genesis), the prophetic details of the crucifixion (Psalm 22), and, of course, the portion which prophesies of the destruction of Babylon (Rome), the great whore of Revelation chapter 17. Vaticanus , though intact physically, is found to be in poor literary quality. Dr Martin declares, 'B' exhibits numerous places where the scribe has written the same word or phrase twice in succession. Dr J Smythe states, 'From one end to the other, the whole manuscript has been travelled over by the pen of some… scribe of about the tenth century.' If Vaticanus was considered a trustworthy text originally, the mass of corrections and scribal changes obviously render its testimony highly suspicious and questionable."

Rev. Gipp continues on page 73: Quote: "The corrupt and unreliable nature of these two MSS (Sinaiticus and Vaticanus) is best summed up by one who has thoroughly examined them, John W Burgon: 'The impurity of the text exhibited by these codices is not a question of opinion but fact...In the Gospels alone, Codex B(Vatican) leaves out words or whole clauses no less than 1,491 times. It bears traces of careless transcriptions on every page… If we are to be thorough and discriminatory in our evaluation of the true New Testament text, then we must not -- we cannot -- overlook these facts.' How did these MSS come into being? How did it happen that they should be beautiful to the eye, yet within contain such vile and devastating corruption? It seems that these uncial MSS along with the papyrus MSS included in this category all resulted from a revision of the true, or Universal Text. This revision was enacted in Egypt by Egyptian scribes! " (Ref:B6)

Rev. Gipp continues:
Quote: "So we see that once a pure copy of the Universal Text (Textus Receptus) had been carried down into Egypt, it was recopied. During the process of this recopying, it was revised by men who did not revere it as truly the Word of God. This text was examined by the critical eye of Greek philosophy and Egyptian morals. These men saw nothing wrong with putting the Book in subjection to their opinion instead of their opinion being in subjection to the book. This process produced a text which was local to the educational centre of Alexandria, Egypt. This text went no further than southern Italy where the Roman Catholic Church found its unstable character perfect for overthrowing the true Word of God which was being used universally by the true Christians." (Ref:B7)
The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has this to say about Codex Vaticanus (B) on page 624 under the article Versions. Quote: " It should be noted, however, that there is no prominent Biblical MS. in which there occur such gross cases of misspelling, faulty grammar, and omission, as in B." (Ref:H2)
Barry Burton comments further: Quote: "For one thing…Vaticanus and Sinaiticus disagree with each other over 3000 times in the gospels alone…
Facts about the Vaticanus. "It was written on fine vellum (tanned animal skins) and remains in excellent condition. It was found in the Vatican Library in 1481 AD. In spite of being in excellent condition, it omits Genesis 1:1-Gen.46:28, Psalm 106-138, Matt.16:2-3, the Pauline pastoral Epistles, Hebrews 9:14-13:25, and all of Revelation. These parts were probably left out on purpose." "Besides all that - in the gospels alone it leaves out 237 words, 452 clauses and 748 whole sentences, which hundreds of later copies agree together as having the same words in the same places, the same clauses in the same places and the same sentences in the same places... The Vaticanus was available to the translators of the King James Bible, but they did not use it because they knew it is unreliable." (Ref:C2)
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/kjv/part1-4.html

You have the unmitigated GAUL to quote a charlatan like the “Rev.” Samuel Gipp, who champions a NON-scholarly work like the Scofield Reference Bible??

C.I. Scofield was an uneducated 19th century rube who fell for the teachings of John Nelson Darby and his “Rapture” claptrap, so he decided to write his OWN Bible – even though he had ZERO theological training OR education. And THIS is the guy whose teaching Gibb adheres to.
What a JOKE.

As I said before - let me know when you're ready to have an intelligent conversation . . .

 

[Yeshua1]

A Liturgical Rite is "Pagan"??
This, I GOTTA hear.

Please explain - with historical EXAMPLES.
I'll wait right here as you fumble around for a response . . .

Always interesting when 2 Cults, in this case, Catholic and Sda go at it!

 

[robycop3]

Always interesting when 2 Cults, in this case, Catholic and Sda go at it!

Oughtta sell tickets !

 

[Yeshua1]

Oughtta sell tickets !

just bring in the KJVO, and away we go!

 

[robycop3]

just bring in the KJVO, and away we go!

Maybe on "Celebrity Death Match" ?

 

[MarysSon]

Always interesting when 2 Cults, in this case, Catholic and Sda go at it!

Even MORE interesting when an ignorant anti-=Catholic refers to Christ's pilgrim Church as a "cult" . . .

 

[Salty]

You have the unmitigated GAUL to quote a charlatan like the “Rev.” Samuel Gipp, who champions a NON-scholarly work like the Scofield Reference Bible??

C.I. Scofield was an uneducated 19th century rube...

. .

Okay, Marys son -
Please inform us of your education.

 

[robycop3]

Okay, Marys son -
Please inform us of your education.

Yeah; Jesus used fishermen with little education to spread the Gospel, as well as some well-educated ones, Paul & Luke.

n his book Revision Revised Dean Burgon wrote, over a hundred years ago, concerning the ages of Codices Vatican (B) and Sinai (Aleph): Quote: "Lastly, - We suspect that these two Manuscripts are indebted for their preservation, solely to their ascertained evil character, which has occasioned that the one eventually found its way, four centuries ago, to a forgotten shelf in the Vatican library; while the other, after exercising the ingenuity of several generations of critical Correctors, eventually (viz. in A.D. 1844) got deposited in the waste-paper basket of the Convent at the foot of mount Sinai. Had B and Aleph been copies of average purity, they must long since have shared the inevitable fate of books which are freely used and highly prized; namely, they would have fallen into decadence and disappeared from sight." (Ref: P1)

In short these two codices are old simply because:

• First: They were written on extremely expensive and durable antelope skins.
• Second:They were so full of errors, alterations, additions and deletions, that they were never used by true believers and seldom even by their own custodians. Thus they had little chance of wearing away.

Origen wrote his Hexapla two hundred years after the life of Christ and the apostles. So in the new versions which are based on the codices Origen used like the NIV, the changes that were done in the New Testament and Old Testament quotes may match Origen text as he used the Alexandrian codices. Origen rewrote both Old and New Testament and changed or deleted the text to suit his ideas and Gnostic leanings. So the new versions take the Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, and Alexandrinus manuscripts, which are in basically, Origens Hexapla, and change the traditional Masoretic Old Testament text to match these. The preface of the Septuagint out today points out that the stories surrounding the B.C. (before Christ) creation of the Septuagint (LXX) and the existence of a Greek Old Testament are not true and are based on fables.

So all of the Septuagint manuscripts cited in the concordance of the Septuagint today were written after A.D. 200 and are linked to Origens Hexapla. The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethicselaborates, calling "the letter of the pseudo- Aristeas, a manifest forgery and the fragments of Aristobulus highly suspect." It also points out many of the LXXs Gnostic and changes in the readings.....

The truth is that there is no pre-Christian era Septuagint (OT Greek Translation) that was allegedly translated from the Hebrew OT in Alexandria, Egypt in the third century B. C., which the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles used...."
The Character Of God's Words

Compare what JESUS READ ALOUD & CALLED "THIS SCRIPTURE" in Luke 4:16-21 with the Septuagint.

 

[Yeshua1]

Even MORE interesting when an ignorant anti-=Catholic refers to Christ's pilgrim Church as a "cult" . . .

Rome is second largest Cult in the world, right after Islam!