Is the Land of Israel Still a Special Place to God?

[Scripture More Accurately]

So, exactly how is God going to “hallow His name on earth as it has never been hollowed”?

Jesus dying in the cross for our sins, being buried and resurrected, then ascending into heaven seems to have “hollowed” the name of God in a way that cannot be equaled.

Perhaps you believe otherwise? What will God do in Jerusalem to “Hollow His name” as never before?

peace to you

Before discussing this matter any further, I would like to ask you to read both Ezekiel 20 and 36 again carefully, and I will do the same. After you have done that, if you still are unable from those passages to answer your own questions that you have asked in this comment, we can discuss it further.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

That is the most important consideration, isn't it? We have to be able to support our views from Scripture. Even though we disagree with our conclusions, I can't find fault in searching the Scriptures. What the Bible says trumps what anyone else says.


Of course God chose to make Melchizedek a priest and king of Salem. I don't mean to make it sound like I'm making light of him. I just don't see the connection between him and the land of Israel being a special place to God today. I believe that God's name will be hallowed over the entire earth, but it won't be any more hallowed in Israel than anywhere else.

Ezekiel 20 is not just about God dealing with Israel for their disobedience, their failure to obey His statutes and ordinances, and their idol worship. Ezekiel 34-37 describes the first return of the exiles under Zerubbabel, and implies the initial rebuilding of the Temple. This came to pass in Ezra 7.

I'm not sure if I have anything new to add to this topic. While I don't agree with you, I have not found you to be disagreeable. This has been an interesting discussion, but I don't either of us convincing the other of his views. All the best to you and yours.

Same to you.

For the record, Ezekiel 36 is definitely not talking about anything that has already happened.

 

[canadyjd]

Before discussing this matter any further, I would like to ask you to read both Ezekiel 20 and 36 again carefully, and I will do the same. After you have done that, if you still are unable from those passages to answer your own questions that you have asked in this comment, we can discuss it further.

Jesus stated all prophecy has been fulfilled in Him. Are you saying Jesus didn’t fulfill all prophecy as He claimed?

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Jesus stated all prophecy has been fulfilled in Him. Are you saying Jesus didn’t fulfill all prophecy as He claimed?

peace to you

I do not see anywhere in the Bible that "Jesus stated that all prophecy has been fulfilled in Him [italics and bold added to the original].

Had He taught that, there would be no future events left that Scripture foretells that will yet happen, including no Rapture, no Second Coming, no New Heavens and no New Earth, etc.

 

[Lodic]

Same to you.

For the record, Ezekiel 36 is definitely not talking about anything that has already happened.

We simply disagree regarding whether Ezekiel 36 was fulfilled with Judah's return from exile.

I thought I was done, but your response made me realize something else. Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans in AD 70 and over 1 million Jews were slaughtered. This was the judgment that Jesus spoke of in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, & Luke 21). Especially considering this judgment on Jerusalem, I really don't see the land being special to God now. Guess we will have to agree to disagree regarding the land of Israel and regarding our views of fulfilled prophecies.

 

[1689Dave]

Before discussing this matter any further, I would like to ask you to read both Ezekiel 20 and 36 again carefully, and I will do the same. After you have done that, if you still are unable from those passages to answer your own questions that you have asked in this comment, we can discuss it further.

Did you know physical Israel and the unbelieving Jews ceased to exist in the biblical sense after the generation then living when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross?

 

[canadyjd]

I do not see anywhere in the Bible that "Jesus stated that all prophecy has been fulfilled in Him [italics and bold added to the original].

Had He taught that, there would be no future events left that Scripture foretells that will yet happen, including no Rapture, no Second Coming, no New Heavens and no New Earth, etc.

I stand corrected. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17, “Think not I come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I come not to destroy but to fulfill”

Jesus said His purpose in coming to the earth to fulfill the prophets. Did He fail in His stated purpose?

The prophecy yet to be fulfilled is what He spoke Himself. The tribulation of His people, His return with the angels to collect the elect, and then the great throne judgment followed by eternity in heaven.

All prophecy found in Ezekiel and other OT prophets has been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus, imo.

You stated God was going to “hollow” His name as never before in Jerusalem. I believe the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus “hollowed” the name of God in a way that cannot be surpassed.

I’ll ask again, what will God do in Jerusalem to “hollow” His name that surpasses the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus?

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I stand corrected. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17, “Think not I come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I come not to destroy but to fulfill”

Jesus said His purpose in coming to the earth to fulfill the prophets. Did He fail in His stated purpose?

The prophecy yet to be fulfilled is what He spoke Himself. The tribulation of His people, His return with the angels to collect the elect, and then the great throne judgment followed by eternity in heaven.

All prophecy found in Ezekiel and other OT prophets has been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus, imo.

You stated God was going to “hollow” His name as never before in Jerusalem. I believe the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus “hollowed” the name of God in a way that cannot be surpassed.

I’ll ask again, what will God do in Jerusalem to “hollow” His name that surpasses the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus?

peace to you

You have misunderstood what I am saying. I never made any comparative statements concerning the Cross, Resurrection, etc. of the type that you are asserting.

This is what I said at the end of my comment (#98) - "Ultimately, Jerusalem and Israel are still special to God because He has determined that it is there that He will hallow His name on the earth as it has never been hallowed."

God's name will be hallowed in Jerusalem in a way that it has never been hallowed when Israel as a nation finally acknowledges that Jesus of Nazareth was and is her Messiah and their rightful King. God is not going to allow the final words from the chief religious leaders of that nation concerning His Son to be "we have no king but Caesar."

John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Jesus of Nazareth is going to be glorified as their King by that nation--something that has never yet happened.

Furthermore, God's name is going to be hallowed in Jerusalem in a way that it has never yet been when all the nations will come there year by year for a 1000 years to worship the Lord as the King (Zech. 14).

 

[canadyjd]

You have misunderstood what I am saying. I never made any comparative statements concerning the Cross, Resurrection, etc. of the type that you are asserting.

This is what I said at the end of my comment (#98) - "Ultimately, Jerusalem and Israel are still special to God because He has determined that it is there that He will hallow His name on the earth as it has never been hallowed."

God's name will be hallowed in Jerusalem in a way that it has never been hallowed when Israel as a nation finally acknowledges that Jesus of Nazareth was and is her Messiah and their rightful King. God is not going to allow the final words from the chief religious leaders of that nation concerning His Son to be "we have no king but Caesar."

John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Jesus of Nazareth is going to be glorified as their King by that nation--something that has never yet happened.

Furthermore, God's name is going to be hallowed in Jerusalem in a way that it has never yet been when all the nations will come there year by year to worship the Lord as the King (Zech. 14).

Thanks for clarifying.

You have finally admitted that the reason you believe the land is “special” has to do with the re-establishment of national Israel and the widespread acceptance of Jesus as Messiah among the Jewish people.

I do agree there will be a time (after the fullness of the Gentiles has come) when the veil that currently blinds the Jewish people to the truth of Jesus will be lifted and widespread acceptance as Savior will occur.

I don’t believe it has anything to do with re-establishing Israel as a nation or rebuilding the Temple or a 1000 year reign on earth (a misreading of revelation).

The future of Jews and Gentiles is a common future… as the church, the body of Christ. There is no separate future for Israel (Jews).

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Thanks for clarifying.

You have finally admitted that the reason you believe the land is “special” has to do with the re-establishment of national Israel and the widespread acceptance of Jesus as Messiah among the Jewish people.

I do agree there will be a time (after the fullness of the Gentiles has come) when the veil that currently blinds the Jewish people to the truth of Jesus will be lifted and widespread acceptance as Savior will occur.

I don’t believe it has anything to do with re-establishing Israel as a nation or rebuilding the Temple or a 1000 year reign on earth (a misreading of revelation).

The future of Jews and Gentiles is a common future… as the church, the body of Christ. There is no separate future for Israel (Jews).

peace to you

You misunderstand my views when you claim, "You have finally admitted that the reason you believe the land is “special” has to do with . . ." as if I have only one reason that I have only now stated.

I have several biblical reasons for holding that the land of Israel (esp. Jerusalem) is still special to God. I have presented several of them so far.

I never denied that one of them is the glorious millennial reign of the glorified Jesus of Nazareth from Jerusalem as the King of the Jews and of the world! God certainly is going to hallow His name by ruling from Jerusalem over that nation that has so profaned His name.

 

[canadyjd]

You misunderstand my views when you claim, "You have finally admitted that the reason you believe the land is “special” has to do with . . ." as if I have only one reason that I have only now stated.

I have several biblical reasons for holding that the land of Israel (esp. Jerusalem) is still special to God. I have presented several of them so far.

I never denied that one of them is the glorious millennial reign of the glorified Jesus of Nazareth from Jerusalem as the King of the Jews and of the world! God certainly is going to hallow His name by ruling from Jerusalem over that nation that has so profaned His name.

And so we disagree.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Did you know physical Israel and the unbelieving Jews ceased to exist in the biblical sense after the generation then living when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross?

The physical land of Israel still exists. As I have said more than once in this thread, treating what Scripture reveals about that land (esp. Jerusalem) is the subject of this thread.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

So far, I have directed attention to the following aspects of the land of Israel being special to God:

1. God cared for that land in a special way before there were any Israelites

2. God made Melchizedek a priest and he was the king of Jerusalem, which shows that Jerusalem was a place of the true worship of the true God before there were any Israelites.

3. The land of Israel was and is special to God because it was/is the place of the tombs and of the burial in other ways as well of many of His choicest servants.

4. God cared for that land when the Israelites were not in the land as a nation because He had judged them for their sinfulness of not allowing the land to rest in its sabbaths. Through His judgments on them, the land enjoyed that rest while they were in exile.

I have also talked about some other considerations that are far more important than these, but I am not going to say more about those at this time because I want to treat them at a later time. As I continue to study this subject, I hope to add to this list.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

As a fifth aspect of how Scripture reveals that the land of Israel was special to God, consider what God did when He removed Israel from the Northern Kingdom for their wickedness:

2 Kings 17:23 Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.

As a result of God's judgment, the Assyrian king subsequently settled pagans in the land of Israel who did not fear the Lord:

24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. 25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.

Notice carefully what God did on this occasion. Even though He had removed Israel from the land, He still cared whether or not those who were dwelling in that land feared Him. Because the pagans who were in that land then did not fear Him, God sent lions to punish them!

It is impossible to say that this passage shows that the land was only special because of the Israelites because if that were the case, God would not have cared what would have taken place in the land once the Israelites were out of the land.

The passage, however, clearly shows that God did care about what took place in that land even when the Israelites were no longer there!

As a result of what God did, the new inhabitants of the Northern Kingdom who were unbelievers somehow yet knew and told the Assyrian king that the God of the land was judging them because they did not know "the manner of the God of the land":


26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.

In response, the Assyrian king--who was an unbeliever-- ordered that one of the Israelite priests be sent back to teach the new inhabitants the manner of the God of the land:

27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.

28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.

Even though the Israelites were no longer in the land--and never returned to the Northern Kingdom--God acted so that those who lived in that land still feared Him. Clearly, God wanted whoever inhabited that land to fear Him. His concern for that land was not at all only because the Israelites were there and only as long as they were there.

This passage definitively shows that the land of Israel was special to God even after He had expelled the Israelites from the Northern Kingdom!

 

[Lodic]

As a fifth aspect of how Scripture reveals that the land of Israel was special to God, consider what God did when He removed Israel from the Northern Kingdom for their wickedness:

2 Kings 17:23 Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.

As a result of God's judgment, the Assyrian king subsequently settled pagans in the land of Israel who did not fear the Lord:

24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. 25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.

Notice carefully what God did on this occasion. Even though He had removed Israel from the land, He still cared whether or not those who were dwelling in that land feared Him. Because the pagans who were in that land then did not fear Him, God sent lions to punish them!

It is impossible to say that this passage shows that the land was only special because of the Israelites because if that were the case, God would not have cared what would have taken place in the land once the Israelites were out of the land.

The passage, however, clearly shows that God did care about what took place in that land even when the Israelites were no longer there!

As a result of what God did, the new inhabitants of the Northern Kingdom who were unbelievers somehow yet knew and told the Assyrian king that the God of the land was judging them because they did not know "the manner of the God of the land":


26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.

In response, the Assyrian king--who was an unbeliever-- ordered that one of the Israelite priests be sent back to teach the new inhabitants the manner of the God of the land:

27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.

28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.

Even though the Israelites were no longer in the land--and never returned to the Northern Kingdom--God acted so that those who lived in that land still feared Him. Clearly, God wanted whoever inhabited that land to fear Him. His concern for that land was not at all only because the Israelites were there and only as long as they were there.

This passage definitively shows that the land of Israel was special to God even after He had expelled the Israelites from the Northern Kingdom!

I can see how you would think this passage implies that the land was special to God, but I must respectfully disagree. God punishes all who disobey Him, just as He is pleased with all who obey Him, wherever they may be. It was only natural for the Assyrians to refer to YHWH as "the God of the land", since He was the God of the Israelites, who had been exiled.

I believe verses 27-28 are the key to this passage. The reason God sent the lions to punish the Assyrians was so they would turn to Him.

 

[1689Dave]

Jews are a religion, not a race. They entered the religion through circumcision beginning with Abraham. Originally all of his circumcised, called his seed, were foreign servants and their families. Ishmael his son being the only exception. Eventually, they left Egypt a mixed multitude of family and non-related, all circumcised, all Jews. If any were not circumcised, they were excommunicated. (God made an exception to this during the wilderness journey.)

When Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, nothing but faith remained to make one a Jew, or member of Israel. Today's Jews hate Christ and are not biblical Jews in any sense. So any claims to the land are fraudulent. All of God's promises are yes only in Jesus.

 

[AustinC]

We simply disagree regarding whether Ezekiel 36 was fulfilled with Judah's return from exile.

I thought I was done, but your response made me realize something else. Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans in AD 70 and over 1 million Jews were slaughtered. This was the judgment that Jesus spoke of in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, & Luke 21). Especially considering this judgment on Jerusalem, I really don't see the land being special to God now. Guess we will have to agree to disagree regarding the land of Israel and regarding our views of fulfilled prophecies.

Lodic, here's why I think the land is still special.
1) God told Abraham it would be an inheritance forever to his children.
2) The Israel of the promise is all humanity whom God has chosen and adopted so the inheritance is for us who believe, not necessarily for those who trace dna to Abraham.
3) Prophecy points to the New Jerusalem coming to earth in the land of the Promise where we will be with our High King and Priest, one who is greater than Melchizedek.

 

[1689Dave]

Lodic, here's why I think the land is still special.
1) God told Abraham it would be an inheritance forever to his children.
2) The Israel of the promise is all humanity whom God has chosen and adopted so the inheritance is for us who believe, not necessarily for those who trace dna to Abraham.
3) Prophecy points to the New Jerusalem coming to earth in the land of the Promise where we will be with our High King and Priest, one who is greater than Melchizedek.

All the promises are YES in Jesus. Abraham saw the land as a symbol of heaven. The promises outrun the capacity of the land to provide them. I.e. the entire world of believers, as it is today in Christ, is biblical Israel. These are just a few. The original exodus sojourners forfeited the promises long before reaching Canaan. What about today's Jews, removed from Israel when Christ abolished circumcision on the cross? They exist only because of their rejection and hatred of Christ. The real Jews accepted Him. Today they are in fact gentiles merely calling themselves Jews according to scripture.

 

[kyredneck]

Replacement theology is false teaching.

...if this is not being replaced then I don't know the meaning of the word:

40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves cast forth without.
29 And they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. Lu 13

19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Ro 11

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Jews are a religion, not a race. They entered the religion through circumcision beginning with Abraham. Originally all of his circumcised, called his seed, were foreign servants and their families. Ishmael his son being the only exception. Eventually, they left Egypt a mixed multitude of family and non-related, all circumcised, all Jews. If any were not circumcised, they were excommunicated. (God made an exception to this during the wilderness journey.)

When Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, nothing but faith remained to make one a Jew, or member of Israel. Today's Jews hate Christ and are not biblical Jews in any sense. So any claims to the land are fraudulent. All of God's promises are yes only in Jesus.

Your comments are completely irrelevant to the passages that I have treated.