Is the NKJV a good version of the bible?

[Trotter]

These passages in the NKJV do not agree each other concerning their meanings. John 5:24 in the NKJV said that believers will not be judged. The Bible teaches that every believer will be judged by Jesus Christ -- the judgment Seat of Christ.

Judgment, as in at the great white throne.

1. When you are saved, you will not be judged, but you will be judged.

I don't see how you get that without jumping through all kinds of hoops.

 

[EdSutton]

We understand the meaning of condemnation and of judgment. Condemnation and judgment do not mean the same thing. The sinner recognizes and understands that the law condemns the unsaved in his sin. Christ took upon Himself every sinner's condemnation. Everyone will be judged, but unbelievers will be condemned.

Let's compare 2 verses in the NKJV

John 5:24

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 3:18

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

These passages in the NKJV do not agree each other concerning their meanings. John 5:24 in the NKJV said that believers will not be judged. The Bible teaches that every believer will be judged by Jesus Christ -- the judgment Seat of Christ.

Let's look at the KJV

John 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Illustration:

1. When you are saved, you will not be judged, but you will be judged.

Or

2. When you are saved, you will not be condemned, but you will be judged.

Which one is more clearer?

I just looked up the words, myself, in some references, as to what the words were, in the Greek text. Try to hang with me on this, if possible. One is a verb, "krinO" transliterated, and the other is a noun, "krisis". Amazingly enough , the noun "krisis" is from the verb "krinO". In other words, they are the same in the Greek. Granted, in English, "Condemnation and judgment do not (necessarily) mean the same thing." (My emphasis, and addition) But that is no sign that they cannot.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that the NT was written in 'koine Greek', and not written in 17th Century English, any more than it was written in 20th Century English. And I was under the impression that we have translated, and do translate, from the Greek into English, not the other way around.

With all due respect, this reverse translation seems to be what you are advocating or arguing for, and simply put, does not get to the question of the thread in any real way, but is a thinly veiled attempt to steer this in a very different direction.

I thought I would say this as diplomatically as possible, for me. If any one is still wondering, I can spell it out MUCH more clearly, and even more explicitly, but I do try to not hijack threads.

Ed

 

[Keith M]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Askjo]

Askjo, as is usually the case, your arguments do not stand up against the Greek.

From Strong's:

krisis
1. a separating, sundering, separation
2. selection
3. judgment
4. the college of judges
5. right, justice

It should be quite apparent to anyone who will take the time to look at the Greek that the word judgment is a legitimate translation of the original krisis. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Yes, the NKJV is a good version of the Bible.

Old Strong's defines Krisis as:

1. accusation
2. condemnation
3. damnation
4. judgment

I have a Greek book defending modern versions against the KJV. It defines “Krisis”:

• Condemnation
• Accusation
• Judgment

A definition of "condemn" in a dictionary said, "to declare to be guilty."

A definition of "judge" in a dictionary said, "to hear cases in a court." The term, "judgment" means the act of judging or deciding.

I have a Bible dictionary. It defines, “condemnation” as “to declare a person guilty.” It explains that there is condemnation for unbelievers only. It does not say “judgment” for them.

 

[Askjo]

Judgment, as in at the great white throne.

John 5:24 in the NKJV does not say it as bold above.

 

[Faith alone]

Askjo,

I said that I don't have much time for this, and I don't. So I'll be brief...

The Bible teaches that every believer will be judged by Jesus Christ -- the judgment Seat of Christ.

No, actually the Bible does not teach that every believe will be judged. KRISIS is "judgment." BEMA is not. The Bible teaches that every believer will be evaluated at the BEMA seat.

I do understand what you're saying about the Great White throne judgment and the difference between "condemnation" and "judgment" and have big problem with it. However, why does almost every Bible have "judgment" rather than "condemnation" in those verses? That's a good question to ask ourselves.

And regarding Strong's... well, I really only pay attention to the two lexicons that the professionals use, and it isn't Strong's. They are Bauer, Gingrich & Danker (BGAD) and Liddell & Scott (L&S). I stand by what I said earlier.

Now regarding whether or not the KJV by using "condemnation" is more clear than the use by other translations of "judgment," I agree. It does avoid some confusion there. Of course, if we consider the many places in which the KJV introduces confusion by the choice of their words, we'd see there are many more than with the NKJV. In general, where the NKJV uses different words than the KJV it is either because the words have changed over the centuries or because the KJV could be improved upon.

Now you looked at the English definitions of "condemnation." But that does not represent what KRISIS means... to declare to be not guilty." That is not what it means. That is close to what DIKAIOW ("justify") means, but not KRISIS. ("judgment")

Here's BGAD:

krivsi", ew", hJ (Aeschyl., Hdt.+; inscr., pap., LXX, En.; Ep. Arist. 252; Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).
1. judging, judgment—a. of the activity of God or the Messiah as judge, esp. on the Last Day.
a. hJ dikaiva kr. tou` qeou` God’s righteous judgment 2 Th 1:5. hJ krivsi" hJ ejmh; dikaiva ejstivn J 5:30. krivsin poiei`n execute judgment, act as judge (Aristoph., Ran. 778; 785; X., Hell. 4, 2, 6; 8; Dt 10:18.—Likew. kr. poiei`sqai: 1 Macc 6:22; Jos., Ant. 6, 34) vs. 27. t. krivsin didovnai tiniv commit judgment or judging to someone vs. 22. hJ hJmevra (th`") krivsew" the Day of Judgment (Jdth 16:17; Is 34:8; Pr 6:34) Mt 10:15; 11:22, 24; 12:36; 2 Pt 2:9; 3:7; 1J 4:17; 2 Cl 16:3; 17:6; B 19:10; 21:6.—hJ kr. hJ mevllousa the judgment to come 2 Cl 18:2; MPol 11:2. hJ kr. hJ ejpercomevnh the approaching judgment Hv 3, 9, 5. Denial of the Last Judgment Pol 7:1. kr. megavlh" hJmevra" the judgment of the Great Day Jd 6. hJ w{ra th`" kr. aujtou` the hour when he is to judge Rv 14:7. oujk ajnasthvsontai oiJ ajsebei`" ejn kr. the wicked will not rise in the judgment (or on the J. Day) B 11:7 (Ps 1:5); cf. Mt 12:41f; Lk 10:14; 11:31f. dikaiosuvnh krivsew" ajrch; kai; tevlo" righteousness (on the part of the judge) is the beginning and end of judging B 1:6. Divine judgment (cf. Iambl., Vi. Pyth. 8, 40 tw`n ajqanavtwn k.; Hierocles 11 p. 441 and 442 al. qeiva krivsi") is also mentioned 1 Ti 5:24; Hb 9:27 (cf. Diog. L. 3, 79 after Plato: one must fulfill the dikaiosuvnh qeou`, i{na mh; kai; meta; to;n qavnaton divka" uJpovscoien oiJ kakou`rgoi); 2 Pt 2:4, 9; 2 Cl 20:4; D 11:11.
b. The word often means judgment that goes against a person, condemnation, and the punishment that follows (Sib. Or. 3, 670) GP 7:25. dissh;n e{xousin th;n kr. they will receive double punishment2 Cl 10:5. hJ kr. sou your judgment Rv. 18:10. kajkeivnoi" kr. ejstivn judgment comes upon them, too ISm 6:1. foberav ti" ejkdoch; krivsew" a fearful prospect of judgment Hb 10:27 (Iambl., Vi. Pyth. 30, 179 a reference to the kr. tw`n yucw`n serves to arouse fovbo" t. ajdikiva"). hJ kr. aujtou` h[rqh his punishment was taken away Ac 8:33; 1 Cl 16:7 (both Is 53:8). uJpo; krivsin pivptein come under judgment Js 5:12; cf. 2:13a, b. hJ kr. th`" geevnnh" being punished in hell Mt 23:33 (gen. as Diod. S. 1, 82, 3 qanavtou kr.=punishment by death). kr. katav tino" upon, against someone (Aelian, V.H. 2, 6) poih`sai krivsin kata; pavntwn execute judgment upon all Jd 15 (En. 1, 9).—(Opp. zwhv) e[cei zwh;n aijwvnion kai; eij" kr. oujk e[rcetai J 5:24 (cf. Philip [=Demosth. 12, 16] eij" kr. ejlqei`n). ajnavstasi" zwh`"—ajnavstasi" krivsew" vs. 29. krivsi" tou` kovsmou touvtou judgment of (or upon) this world 12:31; cf. 16:8, interpreted as a judgment on the prince of this world 16:11 (cf. 12:31b; IQM 1, 5; but s. also LJLutkemeyer, CBQ 8, ’46, 225f ‘good judgment’, and BNoack, Satanas u. Soteria ’48, 79; also s. on dikaiosuvnh 2, end).—In 3:19 kr. has in addition to the senses ‘judgment’ and ‘condemnation’ the clear connotation of ‘separation, division’ (Hecataeus [320 bc] in Diod. S. 40, 3, 2 Dind. krivsi" tw`n kakw`n=‘separation fr. the evils’.—A double sense as in J is found in Artem. 5, 5 krithv"=‘judge’ and ‘divider’). The ‘judgment’, which is operative here and now, consists in the fact that men divide themselves into those who accept Christ and those who reject him (Hdb.; Bultmann).—Pl. judgments, punishments (Diod. S. 1, 75, 2; Appian, Bell. Civ. l, 96 §446 krivsei" pikraiv=severe punishments) ajlhqinai; kai; divkaiai aiJ krivsei" sou Rv 16:7; 19:2.—Bousset, Rel.3 257ff; LRuhl, De Mortuorum Judicio ’03; JBlank, Krisis (J), diss. Freiburg, ’64.
b. of the judgment of one person upon or against another—a. of men toward men kr. dikaiva B 20:2; D 5:2. kr. a[diko" unjust judgment Pol 6:1; ajpovtomo" ejn kr. relentless in judgment ibid. th;n dikaivan krivsin krivnate J 7:24 (krivnw 6a). Cf. hJ kr. hJ ejmh; ajlhqinhv ejstin 8:16.
b. of the archangel against the devil oujk ejtovlmhsen krivsin ejpenegkei`n blasfhmiva" he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment Jd 9. Cf. the corresp. pass. in 2 Pt 2:11 a[ggeloi ouj fevrousin katÆ aujtw`n para; kurivw/ blavsfhmon krivsin angels do not pronounce a reviling judgment against them before the Lord.
2. board of judges, court, specif. a local court (cf. Schürer II4 226f; Diod. S. 17, 80, 2; Aesop, Fab. 190 H.; Theod. Prodr. 1, 402 H.) e[noco" e[stai th`/ kr. he will have to answer to a (local) court Mt 5:21f.—RGuelich, ZNW 64, ’73, 44ff.
Bauer, Walter, Gingrich, F. Wilbur, and Danker, Frederick W., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press) 1979.
3. right in the sense of justice, righteousness (Inscr. Gr. 542, 6 [II bc] pivstin e[conta kai; krivsin uJgih`; Dit., Or. 383, 207 [I bc]; LXX; cf. fP;]Omi
) ajfhvkate th;n krivsin k. to; e[leo" k. th;n pivstin Mt 23:23; cf. Lk 11:42. krivsin t. e[qnesin ajpaggelei` he will proclaim justice for the Gentiles Mt 12:18 (Is 42:1). ejkzhtei`n kr. seek out justice 1 Cl 8:4 (Is 1:17). e{w" a}n ejkbavlh/ eij" ni`ko" t. krivsin until he leads justice to victory vs. 20 (cf. Is 42:3.—Other poss. meanings are legal action, trial, case [X., An. 1, 6, 5; Diod. S. 2, 42, 4 aiJ krivsei"=legal suits, transactions; En. 9, 3 eijsagavgete th;n krivsin hJmw`n pro;" to;n u{yiston] and, influenced by ni`ko", a [military] decision [Dionys. Hal. 9, 35; 2 Macc 14:18]). The meaning right, justice may also play a role in such passages as J 7:24; 12:31; 16:8, 11; Ac 8:33 [so RSV] and perh. others.—GPWetter on krivma 4, end; HBraun, Gerichtsgedanke u. Rechtfertigungslehre b. Pls ’30; FVFilson, St. Paul’s Conception of Recompense ’31. M-M.*
Bauer, Walter, Gingrich, F. Wilbur, and Danker, Frederick W., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press) 1979.

Now, I agree with you regarding the GWT judgment and the BEMA seat. But the root idea of KRISIS is not condemnation, but judgment, so how can you get after someone for translating it that way? Often it is used in the NT to refer to judgment in which the person is found at fault and hence condemned. But translating it as "condemned" does not allow the reader to see all of the nuances of the word. That's why I think most translators use "judgment" instead of ""judgment" IOT prevent reading their theology into it.

Also sometimes KRISIS has a positive condemnation... the idea that God may judge and find us to be without fault and hence bring justice, though that is not very common.

All that said, I do not have a problem with the KJV translating it as "condemnation." It may be a better way to go. But I will noit find fault with everyone else either.

FA

 

[Faith alone]

L&S also

I mentioned L&S, so here it is as well:

krivsi" »iؼ, ew", hJ, (krivnw) a separating, power of distinguishing, Arist.: choice, selection, Id.
II. a decision, judgment, Hdt., Aesch.; kr. oujk ajlhqhv" no certain means of judging, Soph.
2. in legal sense, a trial, Ar., Thuc., etc.:—the result of a trial, condemnation, Xen.
3. a trial of skill, tovxou in archery, Soph.
4. a dispute, periv tino" Hdt.
III. the event or issue of a thing, krivsin e[cein to be decided, of a war, Thuc.
Liddell, H. G., and Scott, Abridged Greek-English Lexicon, (Oxford: Oxford University Press) 1992.

L&S looks pretty close to Strong's. Don't even see "condemnation" there.

FWIW,

FA

 

[Askjo]

The NKJV and the KJV are not Greek Bibles, but they are English Bibles. Judgment and condemnations are not Greek words but we read them in English.

 

[Faith alone]

The NKJV and the KJV are not Greek Bibles, but they are English Bibles. Judgment and condemnations are not Greek words but we read them in English.

Sorry, but I don't get your point. We are talking about whether "judgment" is a valid translation of a Greek word. The NT was written in Greek, not English.

??

FA

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This thread will be closed on page 20.

 

[Keith M]

The NKJV and the KJV are not Greek Bibles, but they are English Bibles. Judgment and condemnations are not Greek words but we read them in English.

The Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. What we read in English is merely a translation of the original languages. We seek to determine the best translation of the original languages. You must remember, askjo, that the Bible was not written in English.

 

[Askjo]

The Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic.

Correct!

What we read in English is merely a translation of the original languages.

Correct!

We seek to determine the best translation of the original languages.

Which translation is best?

the Bible was not written in English.

Correct, but what the Bible? The KJV? Is the KJV not the English Bible? The NKJV? Is the NKJV not the English Bible? If neither the KJV or nor NKJV, what the Bible?

 

[Askjo]

Sorry, but I don't get your point. We are talking about whether "judgment" is a valid translation of a Greek word. The NT was written in Greek, not English.

My point is the question on the word, "judgment" -- Is this word, "judgment" English or Greek? Many people do not know the Greek language because they do not read any words in Greek. They read/speak English, not Greek. When they read in English, they read "judgment." If they read in Greek, they read, "krisis" in their Greek Bible, then no plm! They understand what the judgment is and what the condemnation is during they read the Bible in English. The KJV translators were wise to correctly translate the word on the verse what we discussed in previous posts. Is the NKJV not clear on this verse?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This thread will be closed on page 20.

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