Is the Sermon on the Mount for Today?

[1689Dave]

Since it seems like you missed it. I’ll post it again.

The problem is that you are not following Jesus's words. Jesus said turn the other cheek - not if someone murders your mother, let them murder your wife as well. The extreme nature of your interpretation is disturbing. I don't see any words of Jesus interpreting the extreme pacifist reaction to extreme violence which you recommend.

You can follow Jesus and be a human shield. But beyond that you must resign yourself to God's will in the situation. Killing is out if you are a believer.

 

[1689Dave]

Yes and No. I just checked out Scofield on this and while he did say something similar I think you've missed the idea of what he was truly stating. The morality issue of the Sermon on the Mount must still be seen in New Covenant believers but we do have God's grace now to enable the spiritual carrying them out. Jesus was talking still about the law during that period of time.

Scofield said; on Mt 5:2-12; "For these reasons, the Sermon on the Mount in its primary application gives neither the privilege nor the duty of the Church. These are found only in the Epistles."

 

[1689Dave]

Now you are narrowing the goal post. You don't even remember your own words in this thread

If there is a discrepancy, point it out.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Paul was robbed and beaten several times. But even if nice robbers only threatened him, it remains, he did not avenge himself but gave it to the Lord to whom vengeance belongs

Indeed, for taking vengeance from God into one's own hands, is stealing:

Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Breaking this one, breaks them all, James 2:10

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You can follow Jesus and be a human shield. But beyond that you must resign yourself to God's will in the situation. Killing is out if you are a believer.

Then what were the swords for?

 

[1689Dave]

Then what were the swords for?

“Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.” Luke 22:36–38 (KJV 1900)

The two swords provided evidence that Jesus was a transgressor, especially after Peter cut Malchus' ear off using one of them.

 

[Aaron]

Jesus forbids killing enemies.

YOUR enemies. Not public enemies.

 

[Aaron]

Psalm 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

He beareth not the sword in vain. --St. Paul.

 

[1689Dave]

YOUR enemies. Not public enemies.

This type of reasoning led to Christians killing Christians in most of America's wars.

 

[Revmitchell]

Scofield said; on Mt 5:2-12; "For these reasons, the Sermon on the Mount in its primary application gives neither the privilege nor the duty of the Church. These are found only in the Epistles."

You set up a thread and then use it to argue against Scofield who is not even here. That is where your debate and argument lies is with Scofield.

 

[1689Dave]

You set up a thread and then use it to argue against Scofield who is not even here. That is where your debate and argument lies is with Scofield.

The OP mentioned Dispensationalists who from their inception rejected the doctrine of Christ according to Scofield.

 

[Revmitchell]

The OP mentioned Dispensationalists who from their inception rejected the doctrine of Christ according to Scofield.

And you prove my point.

 

[1689Dave]

And you prove my point.

Scofield = Dispensationalism. The Texas Chainsaw Bible Massacre

 

[Revmitchell]

Scofield = Dispensationalism. The Texas Chainsaw Bible Massacre

You are being silly

 

[MartyF]

Killing is out if you are a believer.

Taser, pepper spray, hand cuffs, imprisonment, grappling, wrestling, pushing, punching, dodging, deflecting, fleeing, and maiming are all not killing.

If you simply oppose killing then that makes you a moderate Pacifist.

However,

You can follow Jesus and be a human shield. But beyond that you must resign yourself to God's will in the situation.

makes you an extreme pacifist.

If you are a moderate pacifist and only object to killing, I can be "ok" with that and leave you alone. If you are an extreme pacifist and insist on being as clever as a rock and just letting bad stuff happen to people I will continue to openly oppose you.

"Taser, pepper spray, hand cuffs, imprisonment, grappling, wrestling, pushing, punching, dodging, deflecting, fleeing, and maiming are all not killing."​

So, out this list, which are allowable to a Christian?

Read the list and pick the ones if any which you think is allowed to a Christian.

 

[1689Dave]

Taser, pepper spray, hand cuffs, imprisonment, grappling, wrestling, pushing, punching, dodging, deflecting, fleeing, and maiming are all not killing.

If you simply oppose killing then that makes you a moderate Pacifist.

However,



makes you an extreme pacifist.

If you are a moderate pacifist and only object to killing, I can be "ok" with that and leave you alone. If you are an extreme pacifist and insist on being as clever as a rock and just letting bad stuff happen to people I will continue to openly oppose you.

"Taser, pepper spray, hand cuffs, imprisonment, grappling, wrestling, pushing, punching, dodging, deflecting, fleeing, and maiming are all not killing."​

So, out this list, which are allowable to a Christian?

Read the list and pick the ones if any which you think is allowed to a Christian.

Would you rather die in good health and receive the martyr's crown upholding Jesus' words. Or kill your way to the nursing home denying Christ's words and die from the ravages of old age? Jesus makes perfect sense if you think about it.

 

[agedman]

Would you rather die in good health and receive the martyr's crown upholding Jesus' words. Or kill your way to the nursing home denying Christ's words and die from the ravages of old age? Jesus makes perfect sense if you think about it.

Because I take death and the how it occurs as appointed by God, such questions have little consequence. God may choose, I do not.

What such an attitude grants is the freedom to respond appropriately.

For example: can’t imagine Paul enjoyed stoning. But can’t think of him picking up rocks to chunk back, either.

 

[37818]

Jesus forbids killing enemies.

So you understand that to mean, not to defend one's self? ". . . He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. . . ." -- Luke 22:36.

 

[1689Dave]

So you understand that to mean, not to defend one's self? ". . . He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. . . ." -- Luke 22:36.

The swords were evidence used against Jesus to frame him for being a transgressor.

“And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.” Mark 15:28 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

Because I take death and the how it occurs as appointed by God, such questions have little consequence. God may choose, I do not.

What such an attitude grants is the freedom to respond appropriately.

For example: can’t imagine Paul enjoyed stoning. But can’t think of him picking up rocks to chunk back, either.

Jesus provides a great freedom from the fear of death when we think along the lines of non-resistance. Those who arm themselves are only telling him they reject his words and would rather kill enemies.