Fits the papacy exactly. Vicar of Christ means someone in place of Christ, Antichrist.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Is there a final authority?
- Thread starter agedman
- Start date
They were seven day wonders, The papacy has been inflicting tribulation on the saints for centuries,
For those who say antichrist will be an individual, I say that the king's in Daniel's vision were dynasties, The papacy fits Daniel's little horn in Daniel 7, which came from the ten horns.
The Roman Empire was overthrown by ten Gothic kings, The Papacy arose from among those kings, who gave him his power. He overthrew three of them and took most of Italy which became known as the Papal States, which re ruled as sole monarch. He kept these states till 1870 when the Prussians invaded France when the French revolutionary troops who had been guarding Rome, left to defend their own country.
Henry Grattan Guinness was in Paris on an evangelistic stay for two years and he described a ring of fire around the city. He left and went to Spain just as the Spanish revolutionary government was driving a new road through a hill and uncovered what was the Inquisition killing grounds. He describes it in some of his books, including: Romanism and the Reformation and The City of the Seven Hills.
You can have an aide memoire for the 1870 invasion by the Prussians. Bellfort a small town in NE France, near the German/Swiss border defended itself valiantly and was awarded the area around as a Territory, the Territoire de Belfort. To celebrate this a great lion was made, and as the original Peugeot factory was in the Territoire, they used the lion as their badge.
Lion of Belfort - Google Search
This is correct. Anti in Greek does not usually mean 'against' so much as 'in the place of.'
This does rather fit the papacy which manages to blaspheme all three Persons of the Trinity.
The Pope is called 'holy father,' thus claiming the title of God the Father (Matthew 23:9).
The Pope is called 'servant of servants' thus blaspheming God the Son (John 13:14).
The Pope is called 'the vicar of Christ on earth' thus blaspheming the Holy Spirit (John 16:7).
However, we are no told to watch for the Antichrist; we are told to watch for the Coming of Christ, not so that we will know His Coming beforehand, but so that we may be found doing our Master's business when He comes (Matthew 24:44-51).
In it's denotative sense, any sect is heretical. A man that is an heretick, though, is not one that merely genuinely believes an error, but one who willfully and persistently holds to factious teaching to draw away disciples after himself, or to divide another from orthodoxy.
I don't think just any error or difference of opinion can by classified as heresy, but an error that seems to marginalize Christ and His work and his body, the church is, in my mind, a truly heretical doctrine. Zionism in the church, makes the church the servant of Israel, and the New Testament Gospel a secondary objective. God's primary objective, the salvation of the Jews, was thwarted, so God had to adjust His timetable and offer salvation to the Gentiles as a plan B to accomplish his primary objective.
Any doctrine that might hint there is any mental, emotional or outward moral or ceremonial exercise that earns the approbation of God and contributes to one's acceptance to God outside the Work of Christ, is, in my mind, heretical.
I don't think just any error or difference of opinion can by classified as heresy, but an error that seems to marginalize Christ and His work and his body, the church is, in my mind, a truly heretical doctrine. Zionism in the church, makes the church the servant of Israel, and the New Testament Gospel a secondary objective. God's primary objective, the salvation of the Jews, was thwarted, so God had to adjust His timetable and offer salvation to the Gentiles as a plan B to accomplish his primary objective.
Any doctrine that might hint there is any mental, emotional or outward moral or ceremonial exercise that earns the approbation of God and contributes to one's acceptance to God outside the Work of Christ, is, in my mind, heretical.
Duplicated
God doesn't have a plan B. The church is his master plan.
That was my concern.
I don’t recall Aaron considered God’s sovereignty as submissive to man.
'#
I was originally in a dispie setup but didn't really take much notice of their teaching, but when I left, over 40 years ago, I became an historic Chilliast, like my dad, But in recent years I have been looking into he scriptures more and I don't see how that can be. If the saints are raised are raised on the last day, and the judgement is on the last day how can there be any days in between?
Paul and John though seem to be referring to a future to them coming antichrist, a person who would be exalted up as being Christ Himself and to be worshiped!
The GWT is just for lost sinners, as the saved will have been already raised up and glorified way before that time!
Because you can't see it does not mean it is not true.
Much of the church didn't recognise Constantine as a fraud when he took the empire. Eusebius was one of those that missed it. His early years were in the days of persecution or tribulation as the scripture puts it. But he seemed to be taken in by him.
The Waldensians claimed their separation from Rome was from the time of pope Sylvester. Sylvester was Bishop of Rome when the empire was moved to the east. Sylvester must have been a big thing to them, because their Noble Lesson written about 1160 mentions him.
Last edited:
The sites are Fundamental Preaching. Now defunct.
Online Baptist
Trail of Blood.
The latter has most of Elliott's History of Apocalyptic Interpretation.
You can find most of it here
A history of apocalyptic interpretation
I found his No 5 Hipppolytus interesting,
David Cloud said in the scripture we have the actual words of Jesus, in Greek, but if I remember correctly, he didn't think Jesus read the bible in Greek.
Cloud also said the original language in the Garden of Eden was Hebrew, as many of the play on words in Genesis only work in Hebrew.
Perhaps your thinking was not Chillist at all, for between the Lord’s return WITH the saints to include those alive that remain all meeting together vin the air, between that event and that final judgment, there is this item called the millennial reign. The second coming of the Lord, is the break from that great tribulation and start of that millennial reign.
The final judgment follows that final uprising in which the Father puts an end to all He created of earth and heaven.
Again, Jesus didn’t actually write the gospels.
BUT WHEN the gospels were written the most current and best evidence is they were written in Greek.
They were not translated into Greek.
THAT should put your mind at rest concerning the argument raised.
Should David Cloud show up on the B.B. perhaps he can explain how he heard what as spoken before the Tower of Babel.
Until then, I don’t think he is an authority on what language was spoken in that time.
- John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
- John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
- John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
- John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
- John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
- John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Of course they are literal, just as literal as this passage which takes those verses and shows exactly WHEN they will happen!
7“Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9Then he said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.”10Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophec
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
You cannot take and pitch verses against verses.
More particularly if they are from the same person doing the writing!
7“Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9Then he said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.”10Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophec
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
You cannot take and pitch verses against verses.
More particularly if they are from the same person doing the writing!
So your highly symbolic verses, trump my verses, plainly spoken by My Lord?