Reply to Slander
To question whether I believe in the Trinity is an attack.
Is it not you that have shown the desire to shift blame, claim the high ground of being attacked, and that Calvinist thinkers "run away."
No that is what Calvinists do. They say I want to shift blame, or claim the high ground, when all I want is to discuss our differing positions and not my behavior.
Van, I have posted the meaning of the word, and I have posted the entire verse with the Greek in English script followed by the meaning of each word.
First "en" is used about ten different ways in the Bible. One of those ways is to say "by means of". This is how "en" is used in 2 Thessalonians 2:13. That is why every major translation translates "en" as "by" or "through" in 2 Thessalonians 2:13. This is the truth you have run away from.
I have shown the practical application of "en" that fits the definition. You want it to mean whatever you determine is right in your own eyes.
No that is what you are doing by abandoning every translation. I am using the meaning that every modern translation uses, by or through.
Here are some cut and paste Greek Grammar sources:
"En (Dative)
1. Spatial/Sphere: in (and various other translations)
2. Temporal: in, within, when, while, during
3. Association (often close personal relationship): with
4. Cause: because of
5. Instrumental: by, with
6. Reference/Respect: with respect to/with reference to
7. Manner: with
8. Thing Possessed: with (in the sense of which possesses)
9. Standard (=Dative of Rule): according to the standard of
10. As an equivalent for eis (with verbs of notion)"
"En (#1722 evn): En only takes the dative case. When en modifies a noun, the noun will be in the dative case and the preposition will be understood in one of these ten ways:
1. Sphere: in
E.g., “I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences” (2 Cor. 5:11).
2. Spatial: in
E.g., “there was a woman in the city who was a sinner” (Luke 7:37).
3. Temporal: in, while, during
E.g., “in the days of Herod the king” (Matt. 2:1; cp. Matt. 11:22).
4. Association: with
E.g., “the Father is in me and I am in the Father” (John 10:38; cp. John 14:20).
5. Causal: because of
E.g., “And they glorified God in me” (Gal. 1:24). ESV: “And they glorified God
because of me.” (Cp. Acts 7:29; Heb. 10:10).
6. Instrumental: by, with
E.g., “[Will not the King] consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to
oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand” (Luke 14:31).
7. Agency/Means:
by means of
Greek Word List 624
E.g., “the Pharisees said, ‘He casts out demons by the prince of demons’” (Matt.9:34).
8. Thing possessed: with, which possesses
E.g., “there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit” (Mark 1:23; cp.Eph. 6:2).
9. Standard/Dative of Rule: according to the standard of
E.g., “as to the righteousness which is in the Law, [I was] found blameless” (Phil.3:6; cp. 2 Tim. 3:16).
10. Used in place of eis with verbs of motion
E.g., “to turn… the disobedient to the wisdom of the just” (Luke 1:17; 9:46)."
QED The Calvinist view of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 as expressed by Agedman is mistaken, "en" is used as "by means of"
