Is there any other way to read this verse?

[agedman]

Wrong If they believed they were saved.
MB

Not what that verse states as the sequence.

 

[MB]

Even if I subscribed to your view of “corporate election”, which I don’t, the statement in context stands in that though there had been general rejoicing, ONLY those appointed to salvation were indeed saved.

Can either of you or Rev Mitchel show proof of Gentiles being elect. Does God pronounce them elect? If not you are assuming Gentiles are elect.
MB

 

[Silverhair]

Even if I subscribed to your view of “corporate election”, which I don’t, the statement in context stands in that though there had been general rejoicing, ONLY those appointed to salvation were indeed saved.

If you are going to say I subscribe to something then please be accurate. I have said we are saved individually as the corporate body of Christ Jesus. If you do not believe that then I am not sure what you believe.

So here you are saying that unless they were picked out by your version of God then they are condemned to hell without any chance of salvation. Your God does not seem very loving does He.

 

[agedman]

Can either of you or Rev Mitchel show proof of Gentiles being elect. Does God pronounce them elect? If not you are assuming Gentiles are elect.
MB

I am not “assuming” anything more than what the Scriptures state. The Scriptures state that those appointed to salvation were saved.

 

[George Antonios]

Here a verse in Acts that signifies how Gentile believers attained eternal life.

Is there any other way then that presented?

How then is there argument concerning “corporate election” and salvation.

If one is already appointed or chosen prior to belief, then there can be no “corporate election.”

Or are all these translations in error?

New International Version
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

New Living Translation
When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers.

English Standard Version
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


King James Bible
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as were ordained to eternal life believed.

New King James Version
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

New American Standard Bible
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.

NASB 1995
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

NASB 1977
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

(Taken from Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed..)

​

 

[agedman]

If you are going to say I subscribe to something then please be accurate. I have said we are saved individually as the corporate body of Christ Jesus. If you do not believe that then I am not sure what you believe.

So here you are saying that unless they were picked out by your version of God then they are condemned to hell without any chance of salvation. Your God does not seem very loving does He.

1) I responded to a post by Mitchell.

2) I do not subscribe to something invented by Wesley in order to bypass Scripture teaching and excuse errors. Corporate election is a human construction and has no Scripture support that does not diminish Divine Attributes. Either God has knowledge of all his creation and every aspect of that creation, irregardless of human time constraints, or one makes Him subservient to time and not the master and manipulator of time.

3) My perception of God’s outpouring of Love does not obligate Him in any manner. He is God, not my small intellectual capacity to question His Divine ways. I am obliged to honor Him by expressing, with as little hinderance as possible, His life through me.

 

[agedman]

Leighton Flowers was/is a moderator of the BB.

Though we agreed in many ways, when he began to drift and put the desire of popularity above the truth, he and I parted. I have not had contact with him in some years.

As he remains connected with the BB, I don’t have the permission to state anything more.


Sufficient it is to state, his views and mine no longer are in agreement.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

English has nothing to do with it.
MB

You can say THAT again. (Is there an echo?)

 

[George Antonios]

when he began to drift and put the desire of popularity above the truth, he and I parted.

A) Oh please. Leave the judging to God.

B) You asked for a non-Calvinistic interpretation and got one.

The word ordained does not have in the Bible the Calvinistic connotations that have been infused into it.

God ordained Judas Iscariot (Mk.3:14, John 15:16) along with the 12 to be an apostle and bear fruit, but you know what happened to that divine ordination.

God ordained that preachers should live of the gospel (1Co.9:14) but evidently not all do.

God ordained that we should walk in good works (Eph.2:10) but evidently we do not walk in all those works.

The angels ordained the law (Gal.3:19).

Barnabas and Paul ordained elders (Acts 14:23).

The apostles ordained decrees (Acts 16:4)

The commandment that was ordained to life turned out to be unto death (Rom.7:10).

And if you want to play the never-Biblically-sanctioned let's-show-off-our-Greek-knowledge game, you check out how τάσσω (tassō) is translated in the Bible and see that the connotations are not Calvinistic.

Those Gentiles were ordained to eternal life in so far that God opened (Acts 16:14) their heart to believe the way he had done to Lydia because they sought him by faith and received the love of the truth.

That's Bible, it always was Bible, you probably once knew your Bible that way, and it will always be Bible.

 

[Marooncat79]

If you are going to say I subscribe to something then please be accurate. I have said we are saved individually as the corporate body of Christ Jesus. If you do not believe that then I am not sure what you believe.

So here you are saying that unless they were picked out by your version of God then they are condemned to hell without any chance of salvation. Your God does not seem very loving does He.

Incorrect assumption.

We all deserve hell

it is a kind living and merciful God that would choose to save anyone.

that’s what it means to be at the mercy of God. We cannot do anything until He does something for us

salvation is a rescue mission by God

the Prophet Jonah said salvation is of the Lord

 

[agedman]

(snip)

The word ordained does not have in the Bible the Calvinistic connotations that have been infused into it.

God ordained Judas Iscariot (Mk.3:14, John 15:16) along with the 12 to be an apostle and bear fruit, but you know what happened to that divine ordination.

God ordained that preachers should live of the gospel (1Co.9:14) but evidently not all do.

God ordained that we should walk in good works (Eph.2:10) but evidently we do not walk in all those works.

The angels ordained the law (Gal.3:19).

Barnabas and Paul ordained elders (Acts 14:23).

The apostles ordained decrees (Acts 16:4)

The commandment that was ordained to life turned out to be unto death (Rom.7:10).

You seem to think the word “ordained” is the same as “appointed”.

I would think they are two different words.

if you want to play the never-Biblically-sanctioned let's-show-off-our-Greek-knowledge game, you check out how τάσσω (tassō) is translated in the Bible and see that the connotations are not Calvinistic.

Those Gentiles were ordained to eternal life in so far that God opened (Acts 16:14) their heart to believe the way he had done to Lydia because they sought him by faith and received the love of the truth.

That's Bible, it always was Bible, you probably once knew your Bible that way, and it will always be Bible.

Does the account go into such detail, or it showing that “God gives the increase?”

 

[37818]

Not what that verse states as the sequence.

It does not say that they were saved before they believed. Rather, ". . . as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Past tense. That is they had already believed prior to having that eternal life.

. . . και επιστευσαν οσοι ησαν τεταγμενοι εις ζωην αιωνιον.

 

[agedman]

It does not say that they were saved before they believed. Rather, ". . . as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Past tense. That is they had already believed prior to having that eternal life.

Certainly, but not as MB posted. (Unless I miss read him).

 

[Revmitchell]

Even if I subscribed to your view of “corporate election”, which I don’t, the statement in context stands in that though there had been general rejoicing, ONLY those appointed to salvation were indeed saved.

what I said has nothing to do with corporate election

 

[George Antonios]

Does the account go into such detail, or it showing that “God gives the increase?”

Does the account go into detail about a pre-creation mysterious-criterion-of-selection non-faith-conditional unilateral decree of God to elect those Gentiles to eternal life?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[agedman]

Does the account go into detail about a pre-creation mysterious-criterion-of-selection non-faith-conditional unilateral decree of God to elect those Gentiles to eternal life?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Nope, I suppose it just validated it by not having to support the obviousness of God being both the author and finisher. For is it not true:

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.​

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Martin as I have said to you many many times you have to read things in context.
Paul spoke at a synagogue Act 13:16
He laid out the history of Jews Act 13:17-22
Told them about Jesus Act 13:23-25
Salvation by Jesus Act 13:26-41
Some Jews & Gentiles sought more information Act 13:42-44
Some Jews rejected the message Act 13:45
Paul turned to Gentiles that believed the message Act 13:46-48

The Gentiles accepted the message that the Jews had rejected. There is no hint of predestination or in your view pre election here but that will not stop you from claiming that there is.
As is says in Rom_10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

All that is true and is not at issue. 'For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God, through the foolishness of the message preached, to save those who believe.'

But the passage continues, ' For the Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness......' Well that just about cuts everybody out. One group thinks the Gospel is sacrilege, the other thinks it's stupid. Who's going to believe? '........But to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God' (1 Corinthians 1:21-25).

Whether you like it or not, Acts of the Apostles 13:48 stands out in your theology like a proverbial pork pie at a Bar Mitzvah. 'And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.' To the rest it was a stumbling block or foolishness, but those whose hearts the Holy Spirit had called, it was salvation.

 

[George Antonios]

Nope, I suppose it just validated it by not having to support the obviousness of God being both the author and finisher. For is it not true:

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.​

Well, since we're quoting random passages:

1Ch 26:16 To Shuppim and Hosah the lot came forth westward, with the gate Shallecheth, by the causeway of the going up, ward against ward.
1Ch 26:17 Eastward were six Levites, northward four a day, southward four a day, and toward Asuppim two and two.
1Ch 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.
1Ch 26:19 These are the divisions of the porters among the sons of Kore, and among the sons of Merari.

 

[agedman]

Well, since we're quoting random passages:

1Ch 26:16 To Shuppim and Hosah the lot came forth westward, with the gate Shallecheth, by the causeway of the going up, ward against ward.
1Ch 26:17 Eastward were six Levites, northward four a day, southward four a day, and toward Asuppim two and two.
1Ch 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.
1Ch 26:19 These are the divisions of the porters among the sons of Kore, and among the sons of Merari.

Did not what I post contribute to give further validation to the Acts account rather than a random passages?

Because such was the presentation in two different geographic locations, and that the account by two different authors, then it would seem to be accurately portrayed.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

A) Oh please. Leave the judging to God.

B) You asked for a non-Calvinistic interpretation and got one.

The word ordained does not have in the Bible the Calvinistic connotations that have been infused into it.

God ordained Judas Iscariot (Mk.3:14, John 15:16) along with the 12 to be an apostle and bear fruit, but you know what happened to that divine ordination..

God ordained that preachers should live of the gospel (1Co.9:14) but evidently not all do.

God ordained that we should walk in good works (Eph.2:10) but evidently we do not walk in all those works.

The angels ordained the law (Gal.3:19).

Barnabas and Paul ordained elders (Acts 14:23).

The apostles ordained decrees (Acts 16:4)

The commandment that was ordained to life turned out to be unto death (Rom.7:10).

And if you want to play the never-Biblically-sanctioned let's-show-off-our-Greek-knowledge game, you check out how τάσσω (tassō) is translated in the Bible and see that the connotations are not Calvinistic.

Well I know enough Greek to know that none of the examples that you have given above use the word τάσσω (tassō). But if reference to the Greek is not sanctioned for us, how come it was sanctioned for TYndale and the translators of the KJV. And where exactly is the KJV 'sanctioned' (ordained?) to be the only translation of the Bible?
Tasso is used eight times in the N.T. In the KJV it is translated as 'ordained' in Romans 13:1; as 'appoint' in Matthew 28:16; Acts 22:10; 28:23; as 'addict' (Archaic usage) in 1 Corinthians 16:15; as 'determine' in Acts 15:2, and as 'set' in Luke 7:3. Those interested can look these occurrences up for themselves. The 'connotations' are perfectly compatible with Calvinism.
I have never joined in with the haters of the KJV - I am always happy to preach from it when asked - but if KJV-onlyism is being used because the Pastor is too lazy to study the Bible properly (c.f. 2 Timothy 2:15) or to keep people from a proper understanding of the Bible, then the sooner the KJV is consigned to history the better.

Those Gentiles were ordained to eternal life in so far that God opened (Acts 16:14) their heart to believe the way he had done to Lydia because they sought him by faith and received the love of the truth.

These Gentiles (including Lydia) had never so much as heard of Jesus Christ before. They had been looking into Judaism, but when they heard the Gospel, 'as many as.....' That's every single one without exception! '.....were ordained to eternal life believed.' That's irresistible grace! Praise God for it! No hope without it.

That's Bible, it always was Bible, you probably once knew your Bible that way, and it will always be Bible.

It's Bible, George, but apparently not as you know it.