Is there any true fundamentalist on this board

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
This true fundamentalist doubts there is any such thing as a "Laodicean Church age" and thinks that the Bible version and music issues are smokescreens by crotchety old preachers who can't get their flocks interested in their personal preferences, so they make it into a doctrine. Certainly they have nothing to do with "true fundamentalism."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I beg to differ with you. God showed me that CCM music is not godly, nor is it edifying nor glorifying of the Lord, AND I was never preached to by any man about this. I lost a good christian friend because of this, and his stubborness to see this truth because HIS FLESH in this issue to precedence over the TRUTH. Much of the music in the liberal churches (Rick Warren church growth, psychology, AA programs, Promise Keepers, drums, electric guitars, ccm music, modern bibles, charismatics, etc., promoting type churches) are very repetitive, bland and hypnotic at best. I have witnessed this myself, and KNOW that these things are not of God, but WORLDLY. These churches are conforming the church to be like the world to win the world, when in fact, and in truth, God has commanded us to "BE YE SEPARATE". God through the church CONFORMS us to HIS IMAGE, not us to be conformed to the IMAGE OF THE WORLD to which these churches today are looking more and more like.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
Anyone who is KJVonly have ADDED to the historic fundamentals of the faith and are lying when they claim to be "fundamentalists".

--------------------------------------------------

The false label you have placed upon us, doesn't make it so. Many here need to face the REAL facts of this issue, instead of focusing upon this label they have made up to fight those who bring others the truth, concerning these mv's.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Trotter]

What do you suppose Jesus Christ our Lord is referring to in verses 16 and 18? Why do you suppose these warnings and encouragements are given in the Book of Revelation?

Because John was passing along the warning to the church of Laodicea?

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[Ransom]

michelle said:

I beg to differ with you. God showed me that CCM music is not godly

That's nice. God showed me that you weren't worth paying attention to.

 

[Trotter]

God showed me that CCM music is not godly, nor is it edifying nor glorifying of the Lord,

Sorry, Michelle, but personal 'revelation' doesn't amount to squat. God showed me to be careful when answering the cal of nature near an electric fence, but that ain't in the bible either.

I lost a good christian friend because of this, and his stubborness to see this truth because HIS FLESH in this issue to precedence over the TRUTH.

So, now your word and personal conviction is supposed to sway this individual over and above what God has shown him? Pray tell, Michelle, why?

Much of the music in the liberal churches (Rick Warren church growth, psychology, AA programs, Promise Keepers, drums, electric guitars, ccm music, modern bibles, charismatics, etc., promoting type churches) are very repetitive, bland and hypnotic at best. I have witnessed this myself, and KNOW that these things are not of God, but WORLDLY.

So, now you are an expert of liberal churches? Funny, only one of your list (charismatic) is liberal, and only three (Rick Warren's, charismatic, promoting type) are even churches.

Bland? Singing the same songs that my great-grandparents did is repetive, bland, and nauseating to me, but that is my personal perspective. I find freshness, vitality, and worship in most CCM (not all, but most).

These churches are conforming the church to be like the world to win the world, when in fact, and in truth, God has commanded us to "BE YE SEPARATE". God through the church CONFORMS us to HIS IMAGE, not us to be conformed to the IMAGE OF THE WORLD to which these churches today are looking more and more like.

Yes, we are to be seperate. But we are not to retire to our ivory towers to await His return and let the masses go to hell. You cannot reach tke world unless you touch the world. That does not mean that you must be just like the world. And the churches that you are bashing are not like the world. Just because they don't sing out of your hymnal or use your fave BV does not make them "worldly".

God conforms us to His image through obedience, not the church. If it was through the church, i would be wearing a gray suit, and 'hack' my words when in conversation.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[Trotter]

The false label you have placed upon us, doesn't make it so. Many here need to face the REAL facts of this issue, instead of focusing upon this label they have made up to fight those who bring others the truth, concerning these mv's.

If the shoe fits...

False doctrine is still a lie and an abomination in the eyes of God, and the man-made KJVO myth is one of the most detestable.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[Ed Edwards]

Brad14: "I believe we are in the Laodicean Church age and the
two greatest signs of our lukewarmness are the many
modern versions of the Bible and the contemparary
Christian music that is becoming so popular.

Matthew 20:1-16 (KJV1769)

For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Let us tie God's hands and not let any updated language
Bibles or worshiping God with new forms of music.

Sorry Sunday morning i heard from a man who is now
a retired Missionary but who helped the East Africans
learn to worship God with thier own music and their
own musicians.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
"I believe we are in the Laodicean Church age and the two greatest signs of our lukewarmness are the many modern versions of the Bible and the contemparary Christian music that is becoming so popular."

So of all the evil and worldly things going on you're two biggest concerns are the NIV and contemporary music? Exactly where are those two things in the Bible?

What about gay marriage? What about abortion? What about the fact that many of our youth are being raised in a complete secular society?

If someone has told you that Satan's biggest triumphs are the NIV and CCM you might want to look elsewhere for guidance.

I suppose that the third worst thing is women wearing pants?

Amen, Charles, PREACH ON!

 

[Paul33]

Michelle,

What are you going to do when you get to heaven someday, (if you go to heaven someday), and all the rest of us are there?

Are you going to tell God he's compromising?

And if you do make it to heaven someday (assuming God doesn't say to you, depart from me I never knew you), what are you going to do when you don't like the selection of music the angels picked out that day?

I'm being facetious, Michelle. But I hold to historic fundamentalism. All of this nitpicking is not of God, but rather the evil one who loves for us to be contentious!

[ November 08, 2004, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Paul33 ]

 

[Charles Meadows]

Michelle,

"God showed me that CCM music is not godly".

What if I said God has showed me that it is godly? What if I said that God has showed me that people who judge others based on musical preferences have planks in their eyes?

God reveals things to us in the BIBLE.

 

[natters]

If the piano and electric organ were good enough for the Apostle Paul, they're good enough for me.

 

[Phillip]

As far as your concerns about music, that is an interesting one. If you will study history you will find that hymns were considered an abomination in churches not more than a few centuries ago. Hymns were added then a music instrument was added and the next generation blew another gasket. Every time a change is made to anything the older generation does not want the change and usually by the next generation it is accepted.

Now, don't get me wrong and say that I am talking about "unscriptural things". There is just nothing in the Bible that says our instrument has to be a grand piano or an electronic keyboard.

As far as the Bible goes, well, I do NOT understand why you think a Bible translation and music go hand-in-hand; with the exception that neither are defined in the scriptures in details. We know that David sang and danced quite dramatically, with a full orchestration.

At the risk of even bringing it up, the items you are discussing sound more of an issue of legalism than scripture. Don't confuse "tradition" with scripture.

I'm like Trotter "fundamental and SBC".

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by natters:
If the piano and electric organ were good enough for the Apostle Paul, they're good enough for me.

So is the KJV!

 

[HankD]

I'm being facetious, Michelle. But I hold to historic fundamentalism. All of this nitpicking is not of God, but rather the evil one who loves for us to be contentious!

Amen.

HankD

 

[russell55]

I lost a good christian friend because of this, and his stubborness to see this truth because HIS FLESH in this issue to precedence over the TRUTH.

You let yourself lose a friend over something extrabiblical?

Then your claims that you have the Bible as your only rule of faith and practice are false. You are expecting other people to abide by a rule that can't be found in the Bible. You are making what Michelle believes the Holy Spirit showed her--even if there is no clear statement in scripture of it--the absolute rule of faith and practice.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

If not listening to CCM was a commandment and doctrine of God, rather than a commanment and doctrine of God, He would have told us in his word.

Why is it many of those who claim to love God's word most are the quickest to want speak dogmatically beyond what God tells us in his word?

 

[av1611jim]

Yes I am a true funnymentalis.

By the way. Which original of Jeremiah do you adhere to? The first or second?
In His service;
Jim

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
False doctrine is still a lie and an abomination in the eyes of God, and the man-made KJVO myth is one of the most detestable.
--------------------------------------------------


It sure is, so why then do you continue to believe it?


--------------------------------------------------
Bland? Singing the same songs that my great-grandparents did is repetive, bland, and nauseating to me, but that is my personal perspective. I find freshness, vitality, and worship in most CCM (not all, but most).
--------------------------------------------------


First of all, I would like to say, that our worship music should always, and first and foremost glorify our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and should focus upon Him and who He is and what he has done, not on or about ourselves to which most of ccm music focuses upon - the self and the flesh.


I suggest you read the book by Rick Joyner, called "The Final Quest" to which I read when I was first saved, and knew something was not right with it. The Lord showed me little by little what exactly was wrong with his vision. I do not know if you are aware of Rick Joyner, but I would say that he is a false prophet. One of the many things he talks about in his false prophecy, is about music specifically, and a vision of a blue electric guitar and how this was going to bring about revival in the last days. If you desire more information about this man, his visions (concerning ecspecially music), and how he is a false prophet, and why according to the bible, you can get this book or read some about him at this link:

http://www.banner.org.uk/res/newthing.html

http://www.banner.org.uk/res/theglory7.html


Then there is a book I highly recommend by Tom Friend called "Fallen Angel: The Untold Story of Jimmy Page and Led Zepplin".


I highly recommend you read these things and research this issue in depth Trotter.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Paul33]

Michelle,

<personal attack deleted>

[ November 09, 2004, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by michelle:
I beg to differ with you. God showed me that CCM music is not godly, nor is it edifying nor glorifying of the Lord, AND I was never preached to by any man about this. I lost a good christian friend because of this, and his stubborness to see this truth because HIS FLESH in this issue to precedence over the TRUTH.

If your friend got lost because of CCM he or she never had much of anything in the first place.

Now I would ask is the CCM of 1611 good? Is the CCM of 1881 good? IS the CCM of 1950 good? How about CCM of 1400?

All sacred music was CCM at one time.

It seems that you have not listened to any good CCM lately. There is some that is excellent and some is terrible.

There are some of those old hymns that are absolute trash. How about "It came upon a midnight clear?" Or how about "Hark the Herald Angels Sing?"

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
God conforms us to His image through obedience, not the church. If it was through the church, i would be wearing a gray suit, and 'hack' my words when in conversation.
--------------------------------------------------


God conforms his people (the church) through the preaching and teaching of God's word through the church and obediance to his word. One most important thing the Lord commands his church is TO "BE YE SEPARATE".


2 Cor. 6

11. O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13. Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15. And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16. And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


1 John 2

9. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12. I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
13. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
15. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.


Romans 12

1. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


James 4

1. From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2. Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6. But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
10. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle