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Is there anyone in Hell today?
- Thread starter Brian30755
- Start date
standingfirminChrist
New Member
ah, but wopik,
what do we do with the story of the rich man who died and opened up his eyes in hell, in torment and in flames? This appears to be an immediate event upon death.
what do we do with the story of the rich man who died and opened up his eyes in hell, in torment and in flames? This appears to be an immediate event upon death.
Hope of Glory
New Member
Hmmm... Does fire always represent the lake of fire?
I'm assuming that you are again referring to the lake of fire as "hell".
I'm assuming that you are again referring to the lake of fire as "hell".
partialrapture
New Member
This is seems like a good place to put in my two cents
I would say... That yes indeed there are people in hell right now(God forbid I smile) burning in literal fire(I'm a fundamentalist) and in the grave at the same time. I hold that hell is the grave or heart of the earth with fire, depending on the context, its usually with fire involved. Hell is not at all the place of endless punishment(thankyou HopeofGlory) Hell will one day deliver up all that are in it first and then be placed into the Lake of fire
I HOPE THAT I WILL NEVER BE IN HELL AND I HOPE THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL NOT HURT ME...
May God do a mighty, merciful work
I would say... That yes indeed there are people in hell right now(God forbid I smile) burning in literal fire(I'm a fundamentalist) and in the grave at the same time. I hold that hell is the grave or heart of the earth with fire, depending on the context, its usually with fire involved. Hell is not at all the place of endless punishment(thankyou HopeofGlory) Hell will one day deliver up all that are in it first and then be placed into the Lake of fire
I HOPE THAT I WILL NEVER BE IN HELL AND I HOPE THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL NOT HURT ME...
May God do a mighty, merciful work
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Hope,
Again, the lake of fire is not hell. Although, hell does indeed have fire in it. The Word of God tells us 'The rich man died also, and in hell he lifted his eyes being in torment... for I am tormented in this flame. There is indeed fire in hell. In this instance, it was not the lake of fire,
Again, the lake of fire is not hell. Although, hell does indeed have fire in it. The Word of God tells us 'The rich man died also, and in hell he lifted his eyes being in torment... for I am tormented in this flame. There is indeed fire in hell. In this instance, it was not the lake of fire,
Hope of Glory
New Member
Would you care to explain what you mean by "in this instance"? Does "hell" ever refer to the lake of fire in the Bible?
standingfirminChrist
New Member
In this instance, the instance of the rich man. He was in a fire, tormented in a flame.
Hope of Glory
New Member
That's not the question that I asked. I asked, "Doe "hell" ever refer to the lake of fire in the Bible? If so, where?
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I have already answered that question. Hell is not the lake of fire. Death and Hell will be cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
My 2 cents worth...
There are a lot of different views on this, and I dont fall out of fellowship with anyone if they disagree of course.
Personally, I do not believe anyone is Hell right now. Those who have died outside of Christ are sealed in their lost condition, and that of course can not be changed, but they are not *literally* in "Hell".
They are in existance in a place called Hades which I have heard referred to as a sort of "holding pen" until the end times.
After the Great White Throne judgement the lost will be thrown into Hell.
Sadly,
Mike
There are a lot of different views on this, and I dont fall out of fellowship with anyone if they disagree of course.
Personally, I do not believe anyone is Hell right now. Those who have died outside of Christ are sealed in their lost condition, and that of course can not be changed, but they are not *literally* in "Hell".
They are in existance in a place called Hades which I have heard referred to as a sort of "holding pen" until the end times.
After the Great White Throne judgement the lost will be thrown into Hell.
Sadly,
Mike
Hope of Glory
New Member
After the Great White Throne judgment, they will be cast into the lake of fire. Most people refer to the lake of fire as "hell", and that's why I was asking for the clarification.
Hope of Glory
New Member
There are several different words translated as "hell" in the KJV, but AFIK, the "lake of fire" is never translated as such. However, so many people have come to associate the two together.
partialrapture
New Member
I have 2 more cents...
why whenever Jesus mention hell he often would say hell FIRE or for some hades fire
(Mark 9,Matthew 5)
I find this to be an important topic because Jesus did, and because it is a powerful and Godly motivation to bring God honor and glory threw obediance. The fear of the Lord, not just some reverential awe, but fear, "knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we persuade men"(1Cor 5:11)
It is said that Noah moved with fear...(Heb 11)
what did he fear? God's judgment.
but if we belittle of degrade the wages of sin you will have the revival we have today a revival of flesh, the devil and sin.
They say "oh...but God's love is what motivates me" well, I would on many occasions agree, but lest face it, did your love for your mother and father always bring obediance? or did sometimes the rod help you along?
Besides how I may try to reason it all together, God is shy about this topic, he tells us plainly just ask the new ager what God's word says about hell, they dont believe though.
Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
May God bless his word in your hearts
why whenever Jesus mention hell he often would say hell FIRE or for some hades fire
(Mark 9,Matthew 5)
I find this to be an important topic because Jesus did, and because it is a powerful and Godly motivation to bring God honor and glory threw obediance. The fear of the Lord, not just some reverential awe, but fear, "knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we persuade men"(1Cor 5:11)
It is said that Noah moved with fear...(Heb 11)
what did he fear? God's judgment.
but if we belittle of degrade the wages of sin you will have the revival we have today a revival of flesh, the devil and sin.
They say "oh...but God's love is what motivates me" well, I would on many occasions agree, but lest face it, did your love for your mother and father always bring obediance? or did sometimes the rod help you along?
Besides how I may try to reason it all together, God is shy about this topic, he tells us plainly just ask the new ager what God's word says about hell, they dont believe though.
Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
May God bless his word in your hearts
Hope of Glory
New Member
If the wages of sin are death, what are the wages of righteous living?
partialrapture,
Hebrews of course speaks of Gods dealings with His children when they need "chastisement", but it isnt the threat of Hell. Hell has been eliminated as an option the instant we are born of the Spirit.
Its Gods chastisement in this life that He uses, and as a good Father He will do that.
The threat of hell is part of what should draw the lost to Christ. Not motivate christians in service.
Grace and peace,
Mike
Well, as one who is thoroughly and overwhelmingly convinced of the absolute truth of our complete eternal security as Gods children, I dont see hell as having any part at all regarding the "fear of the Lord" you speak of...for christians...as it appears you are advocating.
Hebrews of course speaks of Gods dealings with His children when they need "chastisement", but it isnt the threat of Hell. Hell has been eliminated as an option the instant we are born of the Spirit.
Its Gods chastisement in this life that He uses, and as a good Father He will do that.
The threat of hell is part of what should draw the lost to Christ. Not motivate christians in service.
Grace and peace,
Mike
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
the lake of fire cannot be hell, for hell is cast into it.
It is not the threat of hell that should draw the lost to Christ.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
the lake of fire cannot be hell, for hell is cast into it.
It is not the threat of hell that should draw the lost to Christ.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
partialrapture
New Member
I do advocate, but gently,that believers who are eternally secure in Christ, based on their belief in the work of Jesus for them alone, are no longer in danger of everlasting condemnation since Jesus paid that debt, BUT (here we go) God has put before HIS people (believers) a prize, an oppotunity to reign with Jesus when he fulfills the scriptures of reigning as king in the throne David
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
This I would say is the 1000 year reign in Rev. 20
I do not believe that all believers will enter into this Kingdom
1Corinthians 9:24 ¶ Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul speaks of a prize and that he runs, and keeps under his body, so that he would not be a cast away...cast away?
May God bless his word
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
This I would say is the 1000 year reign in Rev. 20
I do not believe that all believers will enter into this Kingdom
1Corinthians 9:24 ¶ Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul speaks of a prize and that he runs, and keeps under his body, so that he would not be a cast away...cast away?
May God bless his word
Hope of Glory
New Member
Amen, Brother Partial! (It's not Partial Brother, is it!)
To see the Kingdom, all you have to do is be born from above; all you have to do is believe on the Lord Jesus. Accept the free gift. This is accomplished by the completed work on the cross.
To enter the Kingdom, you have to do something: You have to be obedient.
Not all Christians are obedient. (Remember, God knows what's in the heart.) Many Christians live in lawlessness, or even commit suicide. This will not cause them to lose their salvation, nor is it a sign they are not saved, but it will cause them to lose out on what they could have had in the coming Kingdom!
You can lose out on the Kingdom and still be saved for the rest of eternity.
To see the Kingdom, all you have to do is be born from above; all you have to do is believe on the Lord Jesus. Accept the free gift. This is accomplished by the completed work on the cross.
To enter the Kingdom, you have to do something: You have to be obedient.
Not all Christians are obedient. (Remember, God knows what's in the heart.) Many Christians live in lawlessness, or even commit suicide. This will not cause them to lose their salvation, nor is it a sign they are not saved, but it will cause them to lose out on what they could have had in the coming Kingdom!
You can lose out on the Kingdom and still be saved for the rest of eternity.
standingfirminChrist,
* The gift of eternal life
* New life, more rewarding and fullfilling, for the rest of our earthly life.
And also...
* Escaping damnation
John 16: 8-11...
(referring to the Holy Spirit)
"And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of rightiousness, and of judgement.
Of sin, because they do not believe in me.
Of rightiousness, because I go to the Father and you see me no more.
And of judgement, because the ruler of this world is judged"
What would that judgement...that the Holy Spirit will convict the lost concerning...be, other then being judged and found guilty by God, and condemned?
People are in all kinds of conditions when they are lost, and might be experiencing conviction in different areas. (For me it was a combination of several)
For some, they may never really think about eternity much, but they are simply empty inside. All the things that are supposed satisfy...dont. They might be drawn mostly by Gods love and promise of a meaningful and fruitful life. For someone else, they may love their life as it is, and find it rewarding, but they become very terrified at the thought of hell. God can very well draw that one to Himself at that point, with that motivation...but also drawing then with His love.
God bless,
Mike
But once hell is cast into the lake of fire, whether they are different or not up to that point becomes pretty much irrelavent, wouldnt you say?
But God can use any number of things to "draw" someone to Christ, can He not?
* The gift of eternal life
* New life, more rewarding and fullfilling, for the rest of our earthly life.
And also...
* Escaping damnation
John 16: 8-11...
(referring to the Holy Spirit)
"And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of rightiousness, and of judgement.
Of sin, because they do not believe in me.
Of rightiousness, because I go to the Father and you see me no more.
And of judgement, because the ruler of this world is judged"
What would that judgement...that the Holy Spirit will convict the lost concerning...be, other then being judged and found guilty by God, and condemned?
People are in all kinds of conditions when they are lost, and might be experiencing conviction in different areas. (For me it was a combination of several)
For some, they may never really think about eternity much, but they are simply empty inside. All the things that are supposed satisfy...dont. They might be drawn mostly by Gods love and promise of a meaningful and fruitful life. For someone else, they may love their life as it is, and find it rewarding, but they become very terrified at the thought of hell. God can very well draw that one to Himself at that point, with that motivation...but also drawing then with His love.
God bless,
Mike