Is there anything I can't do...........

[Shiloh]

I will say one more thing and then I'll stop beating this dead horse. It is not a real bad thing to get the boat in the water, however it could be devastating to get the water in the boat. I'm afraid we are getting a lot of water in our local church-boats today.
I want to thank you for the nice complement on what I have been writing about. I sure don't get many of those! You might be surprised about my church. I very seldom preach on these issues. If you preach on the Holiness of God and the Love of God that reached downward to fallen man through the Lord Jesus. If you preach on repentance of sin as a prerequisite of salvation all these "things" we talk about on here will take care of themselves.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Shiloh:
It is not a real bad thing to get the boat in the water, however it could be devastating to get the water in the boat. I'm afraid we are getting a lot of water in our local church-boats today.

How does that in any way excuse the fostering of false doctrine?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Too bad Jesus caused the disciples to sin by giving them a cup of wine at the last supper...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Shiloh has not been fostering false doctrine. As a matter of fact, He has been preaching the infallible Word of God.

Too many liberals want to justify their sins by saying 'I have liberty in Christ.' Yet, the Word of God says 'only let not your liberty be an occasion to the flesh', which this has definitely become.

Can the preacher be justified in shooting up a gram of heroin to reach an addict?

Can the preacher steal to reach a shoplifter?

No! One is not to participate in worldly desires and fleshly lusts to reach the world.

Shiloh, keep preaching, my Brother. Jesus said, 'Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all mannere of evil against you for my sake. Rejoice and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Sow the seed, water the seed, believe God for an increase in that which is sown.

May God bless you, my Brother

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Hope,

Nowhere in the Word of God can you justify your last statement.

The Word says it was the fruit of the vine in that passage, nowhere does it say it was wine.

Don't add to God's Word to justify sin.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
2Tim.4
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Shiloh, I commend you for being instant in season and out of season and not giving way to seducing doctrines to tickle itching ears. Your flock is very blessed to have you as their pastor.

Actually that applies equally to those who would be liberal than the Bible allows as well as the legalists who make up standards that go beyond what scripture says.

There are those who are looking for a way to feed their prideful hearts by establishing their moral superiority to others.

The safest path is to obey scripture. That includes being rigid where scripture is definitive and allowing liberty when situational principles are provided.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I fail to see how 2Tim4 supports legalism.

It doesn't. It condemns the teachers of it every bit as much as it condemns liberals and other false teachers.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Shiloh:
Now that were are in the New Testament age we are at "liberty" to do anything we so desire...in moderation.

That isn't true and anyone who teaches that unambiguous biblical standards concerning lying, stealing, fornication, adultery, drunkeness, insobriety, backbiting, hatefulness, etc may be done in "moderation" is every bit as wrong as those who make up standards for all "Christians" that extend beyond what God said. Neither those who add or those who take away from God's Word are guiltless.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Shiloh has not been fostering false doctrine. As a matter of fact, He has been preaching the infallible Word of God.

That's absolutely false. Scripture does not condemn the simple consumption of alcohol (it does, though, condemn drunkenness). Anyone who proclaims that simply consuming alcoholic beverages as scripturally wrong is fostering a false doctrine.

Don't add to God's Word to justify sin.

That is exactly what those who say "drinking wine is a sin" do. Kindly address that to them.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.

Modern Day Translation:
Do not experience the fermented beverage

Unless you are a liberal and then it is overlooked completely.

 

[LadyEagle]

Shiloh, keep preaching, my Brother. Jesus said, 'Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all mannere of evil against you for my sake. Rejoice and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Sow the seed, water the seed, believe God for an increase in that which is sown.

May God bless you, my Brother.

Amen!

You are in good company....

"2Kgs.2
[23] And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

LadyEagle, LOL
was ya looking at my picture when that verse out of 2 Kings came to mind?

 

[Hope of Glory]

I'm not quite sure how you have come to your conclusion that Proverbs 23:31 is talking about the general consumption of alcoholic beverages, but you need to take another look at it.

However, although I realize that drinking is not a sin in and of itself, I chose to abstain for a couple of reasons, even before I was concerned with it being a reqirement for the pulpit. First of all how does one ascertain just exactly what defines "too much"? Secondly, there is the image when people see you going into the store, etc. (Thankfully, my mother-in-law went to the liquor store to get alcohol for cooking for us.)

There are others, but you get the idea. It's not a sin, and I won't tell anyone else that it's a sin, because the Bible doesn't say that it is. But, I voluntarily abstain, and have for many years.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Modern Day Translation:
Do not experience the fermented beverage

Unless you are a liberal and then it is overlooked completely.

It is the liberal who overlooks God demanding the best wine in Num.18:12, wine as a "delightful blessing" in Gen.27:28, God encouraging the purchase of "strong drink" on the Feast of Tabernacles in Dt.14:26, wine as a maker of a merry heart in Ecc.9:7, and Jesus noting that old wine is considered better in His parable in Luke 5:39.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

And it is Jesus who will say to all who try to justify sin, 'Depart from me, ye that do work iniquity; I never knew you'

 

[Johnv]

Agreed. All those who justify their sin of adding to scripture by proclaiming "scripture forbids all alcohol consumption as sinful" will be confronted by Jesus via that verse.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[Scott J]

You are making this way too easy for John.

 

[Johnv]

Also agreed. Those who proclaim "scripture forbids all alcohol consumption as sinful" are in violation of that verse as well.

 

[shannonL]

I myself do not drink alcohol in any form. It is a poor testimony. I.believe that if it is not fit for kings to partake neither should I. I don't really go for dancing. I don't like hardly any CCM music it is so shallow. I believe gambling in any form is being a very poor steward of God's provision. I believe it is also a poor testimony. I personally prefer the KJV. I believe that christian liberty is the God granted grace to be able to make a choice rather than be a slave to sin as I once was. Today there are alot of people flopping around in the pool of grace like it was a hot tub for country club get togethers.
I have found the closer I get to the Lord the less "liberty" I need in order to enjoy life. Some are too immature in their faith to even understand christian liberty. If your idea of christian liberty is "well I can do this because the bible doesnt' say I can't." or "I have the right to do this it is my christian liberty". The n you have not really grown enough in the Lord to even appreciate the "true liberty" you do have.
Personally, I'm a fundamental, conservative baptist. Not fundamental in the sense that women have to wear pants, boys and girls can't go swimming together, must wear a tie to preach, can't wear shorts ever, can't have mixxed sunday school, can't sing nothing but hymns, can't have nothing but a piano on and on I could go.
I'm fundamental if you mean I believe in the virgin birth, the physical ressurection of Christ, heaven and hell are real places one of torment one of unspeakable glory. I won't list the other fundamentals as well as baptist distinctives.
NOW , all that being said. It is preachers like Shiloh who come onto this board with the idea that he has got to set everybody straight with his haughty spirit that really stereotypes all of us fundamentalists. Shiloh you better get something straight in your head son. Everybody that is a child of God didn't get saved in a KJVO baptist church in the middle of the biblebelt. Like it or not there are going to be a whole lot of people in heaven that are not of your persuasion. Your attitude and others with one just like yours are partially responsible for alot of folk leaving our fundamental baptist churches.
Liberal is a word that is tossed about to easily. If a person believes in the death burial and ressurection of the Lord Jesus Christ, has repented of his/her sins then they are a child of God. All we can do is look at the fruit of their lives. Guess what friend they don't even have to be immersed in baptism. (I believe in immersion)
DENYING the virgin birth , denying that the Bible is inerrant, denying Jesus was God , denying the physical ressurection ALL OF THOSE THINGS MAKE YOU A LIBERAL. Not reading a different bible versions not having a little wine now and then (I ABSTAIN) not going to the movies, letting your wife wear pants etc... Some of these practices might be a poor testimony at some point in time in certain situations etc... But it does not constitute someone as being a LIBERAL. Grant it at times some of these things may reveal more of one's theology but alot of times it doesn't.
Shiloh you come on this board acting like your the only voice crying out for God. Just like Elijah did when he was having his little pity party. Little did he know God had 700 fellows waiting in the wings.
Shiloh, act like a gentleman. Voice your views with some TACT! and you might be heard a little better. Again, personally I'm a fundamental baptist I probably agree with most of what your saying but you don't have to put other people down by the tone of your posts.