Is there ever a time to lie?

[Brother Bob]

Scribe have you ever lied?

That is always the question, isn't it? What if he tells you no, will you believe him?
I do not lie and have found instead of lying in certain cases as you might use, and just keep my mouth shut.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh Tater . . . That is so sad.

I have been in similar cases several times when old people are dying and ask for their children or companions. I simply them them that he is not able to be there right now, but you will see them soon, if we are talking about Christians here.
My mother was dying of cancer and doctors told me she had 3 months to live. She ask me how long she had and my mother was like me and always wanted the truth. I said mother, they say you only have 3 months and she said "son is that all I have left", I said yes mother. She then said there are some things I need done, will you do them for me son, of course I said yes. When she died and took her last breath, a tear rolled from her eye and my sisters said, Bob was that the breath of life leaving her. I said yes. By the Grace of my loving God, I will see mother again and she believed that as much as I do. Have you got as old as me and walked on the cemeteries and looked at the grave, and it looks peaceful to you. I have. There comes a time when the body just can't live here anymore, and God gives us a "miracle", He lets us die.

BBob,

 

[TaterTot]

That is true, and I have read that it is best to tell the truth to dying patients like that. I would want the truth too.

I was talking about an Alheimers patient who is like a little girl in her mind. And she grieved like a little girl who missed her parents. It was so very sad, and to what end?

So a lie was not told (that time).

 

[Brother Bob]

That is true, and I have read that it is best to tell the truth to dying patients like that. I would want the truth too.

I was talking about an Alheimers patient who is like a little girl in her mind. And she grieved like a little girl who missed her parents. It was so very sad, and to what end?

So a lie was not told (that time).

I would not even begin to say it was a lie, it is not my place to. I can see what you did was to comfort and not deceive. I doubt if you really knew where he was and he would see her later was no doubt the truth also. Some people try to make a lie when I tell someone something I thought to be the truth and turned out later it was not. I made no attempt to deceive anyone, so it was not a lie. We all have to do the very best we can in this life so we can leave here in peace, even with our shortcomings. God Bless Tator, I would not call you a liar for no amount of money.


BBob,

 

[Alcott]

If you're a biblical literalist, what do you think of the daughter of Jairus incident? The girl had died, as determined by people who should know, but Jesus came in the midst of the mourners and said "She is just sleeping." Then, of course, he took the girl's hand and told her to arise, and she did. Since we know Jesus absolutely did not tell a lie, then she was not dead. That makes it an unusual happening, but less of a miracle, if it qualifies for that at all. If she had no longer breath, that's the definition of dying. But we do know today that pulse and respiration can stop for a short time, and the person can still live.

So... did she actually lose her pulse, and was thought dead, while Jesus knew there was time to 'bring her back'? Or was she physically dead, in fact, and because Jesus was going to do a miracle, he told the people what they would later perceive to be the case, though for the time it was actually as they thought?

Or-- and the Lazarus incident would be better for this one-- do "die" and "sleep" mean the same thing, while most people just don't know it? and their perceptions cannot be what makes it a lie? And finally, if that is the case, why can "God formed man from the earth" not mean the same thing as "man evolved on the earth?"-- if, of course, our perceptions of what God says do not matter.

 

[annsni]

I know that the midwives of Egypt were mentioned but I'm not sure if the passage has been posted. I read this just this morning and it struck me:

Exodus 1

15And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

16And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

18And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive?

19And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

20Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

21And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

 

[Brother Bob]

If you're a biblical literalist, what do you think of the daughter of Jairus incident? The girl had died, as determined by people who should know, but Jesus came in the midst of the mourners and said "She is just sleeping." Then, of course, he took the girl's hand and told her to arise, and she did. Since we know Jesus absolutely did not tell a lie, then she was not dead. That makes it an unusual happening, but less of a miracle, if it qualifies for that at all. If she had no longer breath, that's the definition of dying. But we do know today that pulse and respiration can stop for a short time, and the person can still live.

So... did she actually lose her pulse, and was thought dead, while Jesus knew there was time to 'bring her back'? Or was she physically dead, in fact, and because Jesus was going to do a miracle, he told the people what they would later perceive to be the case, though for the time it was actually as they thought?

Or-- and the Lazarus incident would be better for this one-- do "die" and "sleep" mean the same thing, while most people just don't know it? and their perceptions cannot be what makes it a lie? And finally, if that is the case, why can "God formed man from the earth" not mean the same thing as "man evolved on the earth?"-- if, of course, our perceptions of what God says do not matter.

Those are very good thoughts and some I have thought of myself. Of course, it does mean if He was speaking of the soul or body and I know there are different beliefs on that. I believe scripture will support the souls of the departed in Christ are "at rest", for to be with Christ is far better and them that are asleep in Jesus, will God bring with Him. Also, if Christ be not risen, then those who are asleep in Jesus have all perished and we know without this scripture the body has perished, so was He speaking of the soul or bod? Good thoughts and I am not one to be so quick to say that the rest does not mean sleep.

BBob,

 

[Danny Hurley]

Is there ever a tim to lie?

Who is a liar, he that loveth to make a lie and tell it. Abraham didn't lie when he said sarah is my sister, Isaac did the same with Rebekah, Paul told the council he was brought before, that he was a Pharisee. They told no lies, but they were delievered from trouble. I once when I was trying to get forgiveness, told some friends that there was one commandment i would not have to repent of and that was thou shalt not kill, then a little voice told me that i wanted to a couple of times. as you can imagine my exalted heart, melted or shall i say was abased.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Sarah was indeed Abraham's sister...

Genesis 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
Abraham did not lie.

Rebekkah was Isaac's wife, and not his sister.
Isaac lied.

Paul was indeed a pharisee of pharisees.
Paul did not lie.

 

[freeatlast]

Rahab was a heathen. She was not a Christian.
As for 1 Kings God may use the ways of the devil to accomplish His will, but we are not to decide how that is to be done. Lying is sin.

What do you do with Rahab?

What do you do with God using a lying Spirit in 1 Kings 22?

 

[freeatlast]

God honored the midwives because they refused to obey the King. However he was not honoring them for lying. Keep in mind that in Daniel the two Hebrew men who were thrown in the furnace could have lied and escaped the furnace, but they stood their ground and would not worship the statue. God honored them as well as their actions. Lying is sin.

I know that the midwives of Egypt were mentioned but I'm not sure if the passage has been posted. I read this just this morning and it struck me:

Exodus 1

15And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

16And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

18And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive?

19And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

20Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

21And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

 

[HankD]

19And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

They feared for their lives.

How would each of us do if our lives depended upon a certain "correct" answer?

Would we pass our own test or our own boast?

Would I?

Proverbs 27:1 Boast not thyself of tomorrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.

Personally, I know I am capable of lying.

May the Lord keep me from the occassion and grant wisdom to always speak the truth.

HankD

 

[menageriekeeper]

Rahab was a heathen. She was not a Christian.

Your point is?

Sin is sin whether one is Christian or heathen.

I also can't reconcile a lady who is included in the linage of Christ as "heathen".

 

[freeatlast]

The point is that Rahab was a heathen, lost, unsaved, not a child of God when she lied. I am not sure how else to say it. The topic was about what a Christian should do not the lost.

Your point is?

Sin is sin whether one is Christian or heathen.

I also can't reconcile a lady who is included in the linage of Christ as "heathen".

 

[Aaron]

Who is a liar, he that loveth to make a lie and tell it. Abraham didn't lie when he said sarah is my sister, Isaac did the same with Rebekah, Paul told the council he was brought before, that he was a Pharisee. They told no lies, but they were delievered from trouble. I once when I was trying to get forgiveness, told some friends that there was one commandment i would not have to repent of and that was thou shalt not kill, then a little voice told me that i wanted to a couple of times. as you can imagine my exalted heart, melted or shall i say was abased.

:thumbs: Excellent testimony. The law also applies to acts of the heart, our thoughts and our emotions. The rich young ruler didn't understand that, and that's why he could say, "All these (the commandments) have I kept from my youth up."

 

[webdog]

Who is a liar, he that loveth to make a lie and tell it. Abraham didn't lie when he said sarah is my sister, Isaac did the same with Rebekah, Paul told the council he was brought before, that he was a Pharisee. They told no lies, but they were delievered from trouble. I once when I was trying to get forgiveness, told some friends that there was one commandment i would not have to repent of and that was thou shalt not kill, then a little voice told me that i wanted to a couple of times. as you can imagine my exalted heart, melted or shall i say was abased.

You cannot tell me that Abraham was trying to tell the truth when he told Abimelech that she was his sister. He did this with the full intention of deceiving him. That is a lie. Same with Isaac.

 

[Danny Hurley]

Sarah was indeed Abreham's sister she was the daughter of his father but not the daughter of his mother.

 

[Alcott]

And Sarah was also a liar. When God told Abraham he and Sarah would become parents, she laughed, then denied laughing. For some reason Rahab is the one people jump on as the liars from the hall of faith, but Sarah qualifies, too.

 

[Danny Hurley]

Sarah did laugh within herself, when she was questioned about it she denied, because she did not know that the Lord knew her heart, Now she understood she is responsible for her thoughts.

 

[webdog]

Sarah was indeed Abreham's sister she was the daughter of his father but not the daughter of his mother.

That's irrelevant. Little white lies are lies, too. He did it with the intention to deceive, which is exactly what happened. It was a lie, plain and simple.